Hi everyone! Here’s the page for our first round of weekly responses. The goal is to post your reactions to the readings, or in other weeks to examples of what we are talking about in class, as a way of helping us individually and collectively gain some insight into this specific place and time. Our online discussion this week relates to the first round of primary source readings.

This kind of ancient primary source reading may be new to some of you, and you may want to read through the document a time or two to get a sense of what’s going on. For this response, I want you to find a moment or scene that stands out to you, because it’s interesting or unexpected or because it gets you wondering.

Look for individuals and motivations. Think about the way the Romans are shown to interact and what they are experiencing. Find a moment and react to it with your own thoughts and ideas about what it tells us and what you want to know.

The capture of sabine women 

The article I chose was “The capture of the Sabine women”. My reason for choosing this article is honestly pure interest in the details of how this event occurred and why. Upon reading the article I learned that even though Rome had grown and flourished to match any of their neighbors at work they had one problem; lack of women. This was an obvious problem because it is impossible to grow an empire with no offsprings to continue and contribute to the lineage. The senate advises Romulus to send his troops to knock on their neighbor’s doors and ask for alliance. Share your women with us. Unfortunately they were laughed at which no man takes lightly and this is when the plan to steal the Sabine women comes into place. Now I have seen men and I would like to think that I somewhat understand how important their pride is to them but to plan an event as a ruse to steal women from neighboring towns. In my opinion this plan sounds crazy and it means war. To end this summary of my understanding Rome throws this event to showcase their amazing town and their growth and while the men are distracted the women are taken. This doesn’t end without a fight as the men fight for their women; Romans end up winning this battle but soon after the neighboring towns unite and fight to get their women back. During this battle one of the women stands in between the troops and says  “If,” they cried, “you are weary of these ties of kindred, these marriage-bonds, then turn your anger upon us; it is we who are the cause of the war, it is we who have wounded and slain our husbands and fathers. Better for us to perish rather than live without one or the other of you, as widows or as orphans.” This quote connects to other readings and talks we have had in class because it shows how women worship and love their husbands and fathers. Both men and women are devoted to their tribes and the Sabine women taking the blame and stating they would prefer a world where they were no longer instead of being called widows and the children orphans shows as proof of why Lucretia committed suicide – Romans - whether on the east side, west side, north were all Romans and that was a bond held by faith and loyalty.

The reading I chose for this week was The Capture of the Sabine Women by Livy. My classmate’s presentation about this article is what intrigued me. In this article, the author is communicating that the Roman State lacked women. In trying to desperately fix this issue, they invited their neighboring people and captured their maidens. I believe this document is telling us about the Roman’s desire in producing offspring because “it’s greatness threatened to last for only one generation”. Making their greatness last for future generations was important to them. A quote that stood out to me was when the Sabine women intervened the retaliation stating: “Better for us to perish rather than live without one or the other of you, as widows or as orphans.””

The reading I’ve decided to choose is “On The Subject Of Roman History/ Dionysius”. This reading was a way to flaunt Romes long lasting and expanding greatness. Dionysius surprised me with his almost cocky attitude from the beginning to the end of the reading. It almost felt as if he was belittled by every other nation that had any significant power. For example “For the Athenians ruled only the sea coast, during the space of sixty-eight years, nor did their sway extend even over all that, but only to the part between the Euxine and the Pamphylian seas, when their naval supremacy was at its height.” This can be understood as an insult as others would view this as a great feat but for Dionysius it’s rather small and not impressive when compared to Rome. Overall the reading was interesting and fun.

The reading I chose for this week was the "The Rape of Lucretia / Livy" due to the title assuming it was a conquest of land rather than a women. Upon reading the blurb I realized my mistake though it continued wanting to see how the romans handled rape and things of the like. It surprised me the lengths the people declared the sanctity of women's virginity to the point of Lucretia suicide not from the experience itself but rather to not be considered a dishonored women regardless of her fathers and husbands views. I feel that author was trying to show the great defilement caused by Sextus Tarquinius actions not only coveting the wife of another man but defiling the honor of the most worthy women among all of the men and it being an act so grave that which led Lucretia to suicide. It also presented the ego of the descendants of the king, not only raping Lucretia but telling her himself that he would frame her and get away with the act. I feel this leads back into other articles in which the kings or more specifically individuals were not to become powerful as Brutus raises a knife and declares the end of toleration of kings.

The idea of the kingdom of Rome as stated in Livy's "Numa's Religious Settlement" intrigues me. A small settlement, though it must have been, having such high level of institutionalized religion and spiritual sentiment among its individuals to the point of reverence from outside observers catches a figment of imagination that I cannot quite expend. It was mentioned in class that as serious we might be inclined to take this story, it comes from a Roman perspective with centuries of retrospective. Notwithstanding an image of shanty-like huts on and around the hills or Rome makes me wonder how to replicate such an idea if only for literary fiction. With our knowledge of how much time, energy and resources Romans spent on their religious monuments of every kind, it is tempting to take Livy at his word, and the image will remain.

The reading I chose this week was "Numa's Religious Settlement". This reading interested me because it tells us the origins of many religious systems we have to this day. I'm not a religious person exactly but it was compelling. "  the neighboring nations, who had hitherto believed that it was a fortified camp and not a city that was placed amongst them to vex the peace of all, were now induced to respect them so highly that they thought it sinful to injure a State so entirely devoted to the service of the gods." This part of the text stood out to me because it's a showcase of how underestimated Rome was and how fast they evolved. Through this passage I think the author was trying to communicate that Rome was just as capable and faithful as any nation. I think that this document tells us this was a time where religion was needed. It was stated that the thought of religion gave people a distraction from the constant war. Feeling like the gods were watching over and protecting them gave the people of Rome motivation to keep going. I'd like to find out more about these Roman gods I know from class that they aren't the typical Zeus or Odin but more grounded.

The reading I chose was The Capture of the Sabine Women. This reading stood out to me because of the bravery the Sabine woman showed amid the chaos of war. A reason for the Ancient Romans passing this legend could be because it reinforces their familial values. This story can encourage future generations to promote opposition to self-interest as the Sabine women did when they put their lives at stake and courageously rushed into battle to defend their husbands and fathers. The last passage, in particular, stood out to me due to the fact that the Sabine women placed the blame on themselves when they were the victims of this horrific attack. Overall I think that this reading perfectly captures the aggressive nature of the ancient Romans and the horrendous actions they took to secure the future of their nation despite the harm it caused to opposing states. I'd also like to find out more about whether the Sabine women's attempts at stopping the fight proved successful. 

For this week I read and did the presentation for The Capture of the Sabine Women. This reading stuck out to me since it is one of the founding myths that Rome kept telling themselves as a source of strength. There are a few passages that stuck out to me, the mentions of Rome needing women implying a lack of women being born meaning a preference for sons has led Rome to need women. Yet the major passage that is important in this reading is "You are weary of these ties of kindred, these marriage-bonds, then turn your anger upon us; it is we who are the cause of the war, it is we who have wounded and slain our husbands and fathers. Better for us to perish rather than live without one or the other of you, as widows or as orphans". To me what I took away from this passage is that for Rome the woman is the agent that brings a new culture into Rome, two houses are united through marriage, the father in law and the son, the wife is the intermediary between her husband and her father, through her she unites them. This serves as a reminder for those who repeat this myth that for Rome women are valuable, they have a place in society that men can't achieve themselves. What I would like to learn more is what was the Sabine culture like, there is a brief mention of them praying to their gods but I would like to learn more about them if they were a real culture that Rome conquered.

I picked “The Rape of Lucretia” for this week’s reading. The title itself sparks curiosity in a sense of how women were degraded even in ancient times, and how something such as the abuse of power, and lack of respect violated a woman’s bodily integrity, leading to take her own life.  A passage that stood out for me, was when Sextus Tarquinius was threatening Lucretia by implying “When I have killed you, I will put next to you the body of a nude servant, and everyone will say that you were killed during a dishonorable act of adultery” As an honorable Roman wife she was not afraid of death, but fearful of losing her honor after losing her virtue. Her appeal to her family following her violation, and subsequent decision to end her life highlights her unwavering commitment to family honor and greater good. Similarly, Livy’s version of this story lets the audience know the concepts of honor versus shame, emphasizing the moral decay that had set in among the ruling class, and demonstrating the negative consequences of their actions.

Furthermore, I strongly believe that this story comes from a time where social norms particularly the emphasis on female chastity, and reputation could be severely damaged by even a single act of infidelity, even if forced. One thing that stands out and I would like to know more about is how the lack of morality in Ancient Rome was seen, and allowed things such as rape to happen? Was there any punishment for those who committed this crime or just for those who committed the crime but were not “Royalty”?

I chose the reading "Numa's Religious Settlement/ Livy" This reading piqued my interest because I wondered what it took to make something of Greek descent and truly make it Roman, such as their own religion, im interested into how that into their societal and religious norm; and the path it took to come to that sort of settlement, as I imagined that it may have been very difficult. Especially since all religion boils down to faith and the sake of believing. I'm interested in the practices that came from such belief. 

A passage from the text that jumped out to me as I was reading through was in the instance the article stated "The deliberations and arrangements which these matters involved diverted the people from all thoughts of war and provided them with ample occupation. The watchful care of the gods, manifesting itself in the providential guidance of human affairs, had kindled in all hearts such a feeling of piety that the sacredness of promises and the sanctity of oaths were a controlling force for the community scarcely less effective than the fear inspired by laws and penalties." I think its interesting how truly of an advanced civilization found a means to relieve themselves of the stresses that came along with war.  

I think the author was attempting to communicate the implications that the people of this time were extremely dedicated to their beliefs in a way that it was intergrated into their lifestyle, and societal norms as seen how they practiced such religious rituals with such care. But along with this faith, came a lot of superstition. They were extremely superstitious in the way they approached such practices and how they would upset the gods they hold to such a high degree, implicating the standard that the early Romans and Numa’s influence during his reign had on such. 

I’d like to learn more about the steps that were taken that led them away from this religion. I’m fairly knowledge about the introduction of Christianity into Rome, I think what was during Constantine’s reign, but I just wondered what happen afterwards, if the gods and goddesses created were just completely discard or maybe made to portray aspects of their life or emblems of such. 

The Rape of Lucretia, written by Livy, was a story that spoke of the virtue of not just a woman, but of the Roman people in general. Having absolute power, Roman monarchs were known to abuse their powers unhindered. Such was the case when the sons of Roman king L. Tarquinias Superbas were invited into the home of Tarquinias Conlatinus and his wife Lucretia. Having previously seen that Lucretia was an honest, virtuous woman who would rather be home tending to the needs of the family and home rather than gallivanting with friends, and how beautiful she was, Sextus Tarquinias, son of the king, immediately began to formulate a plan to conquer her. After returning to the home of Conlatinus, Sextus waited until everyone was asleep before entering Lucretia's bedroom and raping her. Before violating her, however, Sextus went back and forth between threatening her and begging her to give herself over to him voluntarily. It was not until Sextus threatened to place the body of a dead servant next to her dead body that she acquiesced. Lucretia's moral compass was so great that she would rather have been violated than to be seen as an adulteress in the eyes of her husband, her father, and the people of Rome.

In modern times, it would be expected for a husband to come to the aid of his wife in times of peril. However, after she was violated, Lucretia summoned, not only her husband, but her father as well. Although uncommon today, it shows just how much influence the paterfamilias had on his family, even with a married daughter. These men were summoned to restore Lucretia's honor, just as the Roman people attempted to restore the dignity and honor of their beloved Rome after the monarchy had fallen. This story serves as a reminder of the injustices the people of Rome endured under the monarchy. I believe the Rape of Lucretia was a rallying cry, immortalizing that part of their history, in order that in may never be repeated again.

The reading I picked this week was Numa's Religious Settlement. I am particularly interested in Rome's religiosity and spirituality, hence the reason why I chose this reading. One detail that stood out for me was the functions of the Pontifex Maximus, and how intrinsic they seem: "Nor were his functions confined to directing the worship of the celestial gods; he was to instruct the people how to conduct funerals and appease the spirits of the departed, and what prodigies sent by lightning or in any other way were to be attended to and expiated". The author is trying to convey the importance of religion in Rome's public life, which was also a state affair, not only of its organization, but also its practice. Since its foundation, it seems to me that early Romans had a very clear picture of themselves and that was also manifested in their religious practice, which also presents their superstitious nature. As it was discussed in class, Romans were skeptical of individuals, and perhaps this is the reason why their gods are all part of a family unit, rather than a single supreme being. How did Romans see themselves in relation to their gods and spiritual practice? How much Greek influence do we find in the Roman Pantheon? These are themes I would like to explore further.

I chose "The Rape of Lucretia" as my reading for this week, I feel like the title on its own creates a complex mix of emotions and for me it stood out the most because I am a woman. I wanted to dive into how women in ancient Rome faced issues like male power, gender inequality, and sexual violence. The most shocking or surprising detail that stood out to me the most while reading "The Rape of Lucretia" was when she decided to take her own life after demanding her father and husband to avenge her, this shows how vulnerable Lucretia was in this moment and how important it was for her to preserve and keep her honor as a woman intact. Even though her husband and father promised her there would be consequences, she still went on to take her own life. I think the author was trying communicate how society in ancient Rome had placed such a heavy burden on the integrity of women, how only women should be pure and untouched. This has a connection to our other readings because again it talks about the idea that society in ancient Rome placed this high standard of integrity and honor only on women.

I would like to learn more about Roman society handled cases of sexual assault? or what would be the consequences for the person who committed the crime?

Also how did this story in particular shape political views in Roman society?

The legend of the Rape of Lucretia was one of high importance among the Romans due to it's prominence in understanding their ideologies when it comes to virtue. The story consists of a couple key characters being son of the king, Sextus Tarquinius, Tarquinius Conlatinus, and his wife Lucretia. Lucretia is observed as being the most chaste and honorable woman and thus caught the attention of Sextus Tarquinius. This shows the form of value that was in place for women in Rome. The more honorable, the more loyal, committed, chaste, and the more hardworking a woman is the more valuable and sought after she will be treated as by men within Roman society. Sextus Tarquinius therefore took it upon himself to approach Lucretia with a sword and force himself upon her, ultimately pleasing himself and stripping her of her honor. This part of the story shows the unfair balance of power held by the son of a king, an individual. He felt as though there would be no consequence in his actions and therefore acted carelessly, with little regard for the subsequent victim and her family. Upon his arrival, Lucretia revealed to Tarquinius Conlatinus what had happened. She told him to swear upon avenging her and took her own life so as to preserve her honor and remain an example of justice for Roman women. This part shows the extent to which Romans believed they should go to so as to preserve their honor as they believed it was worth dying for. Brutus who had accompanied Conlatinus then exclaimed how he would never tolerate another king in Rome. This part marked the transition from Rome being a kingdom to a republic which was done so as to prevent any one man from having too much power and thus freeing himself from any subsequent consequence. From that point on all Romans were to be met with limits and restrictions so as to remain a just nation.

When reading "Dionysius of Halicarnassus on the Subject of Ancient Rome," Dionysius of Halicarnassus's perspective told Roman ideals and beliefs. It emphasized what we discussed in class about having ambitions and wanting to have individual glory being frowned upon. The line that stood out to me was." Those, on the other hand, who, while 

making choice of the best subjects, are careless and indolent in compiling their narratives out of such reports as chance to come to their ears gain no praise by reason of that choice; for we do not deem it fitting that the histories of renowned cities and of men who have held supreme power should be written in an offhand or negligent manner." Learning about this in class and reading it from someone of the time was very interesting. 

Growing up, I always enjoyed the Roman Empire section when learning World history. Learning about Gaius Julius Caesar, a figure like Caesar, always interested me. Learning about a great general who fought for his people and left a lasting impact on the republic was admirable.  But hearing Dionysius of Halicarnassus's account of Roman ideals made me understand who the Romans as a people were.  The Romans were about the republic and the betterment of their society, making the eventual assassination/betrayal of Julius Caesar understandable.