Hi folks! As we start discussing Clouds, I want to hear what you reacted to in the first two sections? How do you see Strepsiades, the father? What’s the symbolism of the son, Pheidippides? What does the “Socrates” of the play seem to want?

The problem of Athens in the eyes of Aristophanes was selfishness. he is showing that the leaders of Athens are worrying more about their own selfish desires than the growth and the future of Athens. in this strep Siades represent the older generation of Athens which believes in the values and future of Athens while Pheidippides represent the new generation which is more worried about themselves than in the future of Athens.

I believe one of the dangers Clouds could represent would be debt, as it could destroy someone. This is the reason Pheidipeddes sends his son to the thinkery in an attempt to save himself from debt.

In this period of change, organization and community needs should be at the forefront of society, which is what Aristophanes would agree with because he believes that this societal change being brought by the youth is tainting the core ideals of the Greeks. Pheidippides, the son of Aristophane, is doing just that; the selfish ideals of personal dreams could sabotage the lives of the many. What I understood from this week's reading was that the ideas and wants of the individual have been selfishly put first compared to the betterment of the community.

Aristophanes discusses the collapse of Athens and its impact on the citizens. He is showing how education can be manipulated for some people in Athens, for example, Strepsiades, a farmer married to an aristocratic woman and a father to his son Pheidippides. Strepsiades is facing debt and is trying to find a way to save himself from it, so he thinks the only way to do it is to get his son to go to the thinkery to learn from wise men. Pheidippides is a symbol of horsemen because he dreams of riding horses and driving a chariot, and his dream leaves his father in ruins, causing him to disregard the changes that have occurred since the collapse of Athens. Socrates wants to teach his students about the knowledge of thinking and about arguments. I think the author of the book is trying to tell us how the play in the book attacks the audience.

Aristophanes seems to be utilizing this scene to convey his horror at the moral decadence of Athens. He is showing that the rise of Sophistic rhetoric and the exalting of persuasion over virtue were corrupting Athenian youth and undermining the city's foundations. This competition is a satirical reflection of how education and intellectual endeavor were being warped for self-serving purposes, rather than being used to strengthen society.

Aristophanes is clearly speaking his mind regarding the collapse of Athenian civilization. He is objecting to how rhetoric and education were being manipulated selfishly rather than serving the city. The play also shows that Athens was also dealing with intergenerational warfare, where ancient concepts clashed with innovative ideas cultivated by philosophers like Socrates.

A part of the sections that surprised me was when Strepsiades reluctantly accepted that his son Pheidippides was not going to learn how to argue to escape debt and then going to learn how to argue himself to avoid the debt. I think Strepsiades represents the older Greeks who are used to the way things operate and live in that system without complaint. This is in contrast with his son Pheidippides who represents the younger Greeks who do not really care about the old way things are run. It seems that Socrates wants to push knowledge by using deep thinking as well as teaching arguments to the rest of the students.

One part of the text that surprised me was when Strepsiades sort of reluctantly accepted that his son Pheidippides was not going to seek out Socrates to learn how to give a convincing argument and instead decided to go learn himself. I think that Strepsiades is meant to represent the traditional Greek. Strepsiades seems to be hard working and stable in what he does. Pheidippides is supposed to represent the young new Greeks who want change and don’t care for the way things were run before. Socrates seems to want to push for knowledge and understanding through deep thought and by teaching arguments.

For this week’s response, I’ve chosen *Clouds, Section 1*. One part that really stood out to me was when the narrator says the sky is "not just a mere void," but something that "swallowed everything it touched, folding the world into nothingness." This part really caught my attention because it shows the sky as not just big, but as something that takes over everything, like it’s a powerful force. It made me think that the narrator feels small and helpless compared to how big and endless the sky seems. I think the author is trying to show how nature can be both beautiful and overwhelming at the same time. The way the sky is described like it can "swallow" everything might mean that humans are just a small part of a much bigger world, and we have no control over that. I’d like to learn more about why the narrator is thinking about the sky like this. What is going on in the story that makes them feel this way? How does this part fit into the rest of the story and its themes? Understanding this would help me get the author’s full message.

In Clouds, Strepsiades an Athenian father is struggling with debt because his son Pheidippides horse races. To escape his debt he joins “ Socrates”, a school teaching clever arguments. He was struggling with the lessons so he convinced his son to go instead. After these lessons, Pheidippides uses the new skills he learns to justify his immoral behavior. His father criticizes its teaching, which highlights the controversy between the new and old teachings on traditional values.

This just shows me in a way how the son and the father both have different points of view as if me and my grandmother will have different views of life because the way she sees life is probably different from my pov. After all, things are so much different from now and then. Therefore, what I think is right may not be right for her.

The author, Aristophanes was perhaps trying to communicate the dangers of the philosophical teachings that Socrates posed to the youth in particular and therefore the future of Athens. Often throughout the text, the author seems to dramatize the "stupidity" of "Socrates", and his students- having them bow with their butts upright, there seems to be a lot of references to "crap" or animals crapping on "Socrates". Strepsiades represents Athen's past, the older generation. While the son Pheidippides represents Athen's future, the younger generation of Athens. I find it ironic that the playwright is doing what he's trying to warn against sophism which is what "Socrates" is teaching his students but he seems to do the exact same thing in this play. Manipulate the real Socrates' character and teachings. It comes off more hypocritical than anything but Aristophanes genuinely believes that "Socrates" and the real life Socrates posed a threat to the conservative views on Athens with a specific target to the male dominated audience.

In Act 2, Strepsiades begins his lessons with a hyperbolic caricature of Socrates, highlighting his arrogance and dismissiveness of independent thought. Aristophanes exaggerates Socrates' arrogance, highlighting his belief in the gods and dismissiveness of others. Ancient Athenians were suspicious of philosophers, believing Socrates drew people away from traditional religious beliefs. The Thinkery was seen as a place where men abandoned reason, contributing to societal decline. The play encourages readers to mock Socrates and avoid his influence.

The scene the interaction with clouds which change its own shape to goddess is impressive for me. The scene would highlight the sanctity of clouds, and Socrates sees the clouds as a transcending being, which is definitely different from conventional thinking about a divine being. The author may take a critical view on the thought of Socrates, and he is portrayed satirically. It is interesting how Socrates is depicted, and the connection with the background of the era hereafter.

One part that stood out to me in Clouds was when Strepsiades blames his debt on his son’s love for horses. It reminded me of parents today struggling with their kids’ expensive hobbies. Aristophanes seems to be making fun of how Athenians spent money they didn’t have and avoided taking responsibility. Strepsiades wanting to learn from Socrates to talk his way out of debt also shows how people looked for easy ways out. It makes me wonder—did people back then really see Socrates’ teachings as tricks, or was Aristophanes just joking?

In the first sections of clouds Aristophanes shows his critiques of the Athenian society. He thought that there was intellectual and moral corruption in the city. Strepsiades tries avoiding paying his debts by learning argumentative tricks. Aristophanes points out how the cities values shifted because the intellectuals were teaching students how to manipulate logic for their selfish gain instead of wisdom. Clouds suggests that Athens was struggling, and people weren’t respecting the gods as much. At this time, the young people in Athens, were being exposed to education, and they were becoming morally corrupt. They were focused on individual gain instead of the good of the society. This was showing the conflict between old and new ways of thinking in Athens.

Section 2 is where Strepsiades begins to learn from (fake) Socrates. I think this is the moment where Aristophanes decided to up the conceitedness of (fake) Socrates. The (fake) Socrates berates Strepsiades because he doesn't know where the clouds come from and still believes in the gods at this point. This was Aristophanes way of depicting the blasphemy of Socrates and his thinking. Its saying that the (fake) Socrates is teaching people to forsake the gods and that is the problem with his thinking. That's why the (fake) Socrates is so critical he thinks anyone that doesn't listen to him and thinks on their own and instead of like him is unintelligent. He sees them as a burden and has no patience for them.

The ancient Athenians didn't like philosophers and Socrates was no exception. They felt that Socrates was influencing men to turn away from the gods. This points to the ancient Athenians religious nature. Aristophanes depicted the thinkery as a place where men go to learn to forgo all reason. They turn their back on their people and turn Athens to a place of lawlessness. Even when Socrates is explaining the clouds to Strepsiades he explains it as though he knows everything but really he doesn't. I believe it is a commentary on the Irony of Socrates and his philosophy. Aristophanes wanted the readers to laugh and point at Socrates but also to stay away from Socrates kind of thinking.

Section 2 is where Strepsiades begins to learn from (fake) Socrates. I think this is the moment where Aristophanes decided to up the conceitedness of (fake) Socrates. The (fake) Socrates berates Strepsiades because he doesn't know where the clouds come from and still believes in the gods at this point. This was Aristophanes way of depicting the blasphemy of Socrates and his thinking. Its saying that the (fake) Socrates is teaching people to forsake the gods and that is the problem with his thinking. That's why the (fake) Socrates is so critical he thinks anyone that doesn't listen to him and thinks on their own and instead of like him is unintelligent. He sees them as a burden and has no patience for them.

The ancient Athenians didn't like philosophers and Socrates was no exception. They felt that Socrates was influencing men to turn away from the gods. This points to the ancient Athenians religious nature. Aristophanes depicted the thinkery as a place where men go to learn to forgo all reason. They turn their back on their people and turn Athens to a place of lawlessness. Even when Socrates is explaining the clouds to Strepsiades he explains it as though he knows everything but really he doesn't. I believe it is a commentary on the Irony of Socrates and his philosophy. Aristophanes wanted the readers to laugh and point at Socrates but also to stay away from Socrates kind of thinking.