Ancient Greece
 

 

Weekly Responses

Post your weekly responses here.

 

Topic: The Fourth Century Crisis

Due: Sun Nov 17

Prompt: What does the document you chose for this week tell us about the era of the Fourth Century Crisis?

The documents for this week are:

    For your online response this week, write a post that includes the following:

    • Which reading did you pick? If there’s a reason it interested you, what was it?
    • What passage or detail in particular jumped out at you as you read through it?
    • What do you think the author was trying to communicate?
    • In your opinion, what is this document telling us about the time and place it comes from?
    • What about this document seems to relate to, support, or even contradict our other readings about this time and place?
    • What would you like to find out more about?

    Responses for Week 11

    Week 11: Plato's The Death of Socrates

    Kevin Reyes 866
    2024-12-08 02:32:28

    The Death of Socrates was the reading that stood out to me this week because it showcased the immense wisdom that Socrates held, especially for someone facing a death sentence. As summed up in the beginning, Socrates was put on trial and labeled to have been corrupting the youth based on the teachings he presented throughout Athens. During this time, Socrates was also accused of praising Gods that were not of the State which stood out to me the most because his teachings usually consisted of questioning oneself to get to the root of one's issues or purpose. His teachings usually cast aside religious beliefs and social hierarchy as he strived to show that virtue was the true form of knowledge. In my opinion, I feel that Socrates was too real for the people of Athens to understand or accept which is probably why they felt the need to execute him. Whether it was biased or not it is clear that the people of Athens didn't like Socrates for what he represented and this could also be seen in his portrayal in Clouds. In the text, Socrates says, "I had not the boldness..to address you as you would have liked me to do, weeping and wailing...I ought not to do anything common or mean when in danger: nor do I now repent of the style of my defence; I would rather die having spoken after my manner than speak in your manner and live." This would have to be the coldest thing anyone could've ever said as they await death, being that this is Socrates it is clear that his teachings were indeed about being oneself. He didn't lament to ease the crowd and opinions of others, instead, he called everyone out for their selfish ambition and went out knowing who he was which is a trait not everyone has in their lifetime. This document shows me that around this time people stood close to the State over themselves, an aspect that Socrates tried to dismiss in his teaching. He strived to fix the incorrect thinking and beliefs sprouted in Athens and believed that the purpose of human life was to know what was good for humans and oneself in particular.

    Week 11

    Taber Minich 857
    2024-12-06 23:10:25

    I chose the Battle of Leuctra to write about since I’m very interested in military history. The battle would send shockwaves throughout Hellas, the defining battle which brought an end to Spartan hegemony. In the battle, the genius Theban general, Epaminondas, used unorthodox tactics and his superior cavalry to best the considerably better trained and larger hoplite dominated Spartan army. One of the key decisions of Epaminondas to counter the superior Spartan phalanx was to create a phalanx far deeper than usual. While this reduced the phalanx’s offensive potential, the formation increased its resilience and staying power. Xenophon says that “The Thebans were formed in close order of not less than fifty shields deep, calculating that victory over the king’s division of his army would involve the easy conquest of the rest”. The author, Xenophon, a general himself, was greatly interested in matters of strategy, and had a very favorable view of the Lacedaemonians. Look no further for evidence of this bias in the line where he explains away the poor performance of the Spartan cavalry by claiming they “were the least able-bodied of men – just raw recruits simply set astride their horses, and wanting in all soldiery ambition”. Even so, the account of the movements of the battle are clearly meant to show how the superior tactics and flexibility of the Theban army was what won the battle. It also reflects how Hellenes like Xenophon were being forced to come to terms with the fact that warfare had fundamentally changed, and traditional phalanx warfare was no longer viable. Yes, the majority of an army’s troops would still be comprised of hoplites, but from now on cavalry and light infantry would be a regular part of most armies. I’d like to learn more about Epaminondas and his generalship.

    Week 11

    Christopher Alvarado 847
    2024-12-02 07:32:20

    I chose "The Death of Socrates" from Plato's Apology and Phaedo because it is significant for the development of intellectual thinking and historical background. The courage of Socrates before his judges and the lack of fear over his life facing the people who would deliver his sentence deserve critical reconsideration of the ideas of life and morality in the light of justice. His consistency in standing by his principles, even at the expense of his life, is both an inspiration and a source of intellectual challenge.

    A feature that was brought into view when Socrates said, "The difficulty is not to avoid death, but to avoid unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death." This quote signifies how being righteous throughout life is way more important than merely living. Very strong evidence to prove his ethical strength and to what extent he was devoted to the truth. In this case, Plato uses the myth to remark on the democratic institution that existed in Athens and how fear and convention can lead to undue sentences. Beyond that, the tale emphasizes his essential view that death is not something to be feared but is rather part of life.

    I believe that this reading reveals the tension in 399 BCE Athens between tradition and emerging philosophical ideas; it shows how societies struggle with change. Although at one point or another, it does connect with other readings about the intellectual vibrancy of Athens and its shortcomings, like the tendencies for mob mentality and silencing of dissident voices. It would be wonderful to pick up how the execution of Socrates affected Plato's reflections on governance and moral life, and how it did indeed affect later philosophers and society.

    Response 11# by: Ismael Barry

    Ismael Barry 780
    2024-11-20 13:20:06

    I picked " The Death of Socrates/Plato" because I was fascinated with how the death of Socrates impacted Athens in the years after his death. Plus, the death's impact on his student at the time Plato. In the prolong, to reading, it states Socrates at the age of 70 years was found guilty of corruption of the youth and belief in other gods than those of the state. Thus, he was sentenced to execution. I find it interesting that Plato was present for the execution of his teacher and found his execution to be the vicious and ungrateful nature of his fellow citizens. From this statement, Plato may have viewed his teacher as a gem to Athens, and his death was a loss and a big blow to Athens. In the Apology section, I found this quote to be interesting, the quote states, " Not much time will be gained, O Athenians, in return for the evil name which you will get from the detractors of the city, who will say that you killed Socrates, a wise man; for they will call me wise, even although I am not wise, when they want to reproach you. If you had waited a little while, your desire would have been fulfilled in the course of nature. For I am far advanced in years, as you may perceive, and not far from death. I am speaking now not to all of you, but only to those who have condemned me to death. And I have another thing to say to them: You think that I was convicted because I had no words of the sort which would have procured my acquittal—I mean, if I had thought fit to leave nothing undone or unsaid. Not so; the deficiency which led to my conviction was not of words—certainly not. But I had not the boldness or impudence or inclination to address you as you would have liked me to do, weeping and wailing and lamenting, and saying and doing many things which you have been accustomed to hear from others, and which, as I maintain, are unworthy of me. I thought at the time that I ought not to do anything common or mean when in danger: nor do I now repent of the style of my defence; I would rather die having spoken after my manner, than speak in your manner and live." Socrates is well aware of the charges brought upon him and knows the charges are false and have no merit and yet accepts his fate. To him submission to the state, was worse than death and his philosophy will not allow it. It is clear the author is trying to communicate Socrates's strong beliefs and convictions to those beliefs even if it cost him his life. I would like to know if Plato viewed Socrates as a father figure.

    The Death of Socrates

    Julian Cocking 776
    2024-11-19 13:13:02

    The reading I picked this week was "The Death of Socrates", by Plato. The reason I picked this reading was because I also talked about the idea of Socrates death in Phaedo, by Plato in my Clouds essay. One passage that jumped out to me was when when Socrates accepted his fate when he was dying because he knew that death was part of a way of life. What the author is trying to communicate to the audience is what Socrates is as a character. Socrates is a character who makes a lot of sacrifices to the point where Socrates realizes that everything comes with a cost. What the stories about Socrates death tells me about classical Athens is the nature of the people of Athens, as they can have different characteristic traits and a philosophical idea that helps . With Socrates, he was a very smart god who knew when sacrifices were to be made, and who to help out when they were having trouble. This document relates to what I did for the Clouds essay. While my Clouds essay, and this document relates to Socrates death, it also connects the idea of philosophy as Socrates messages the god Evenus about what comes after dying. What I would like to find out more about is what would've happened if Socrates didn't die. Would Phaedo and his friends have more to give? Would there be a turning point in Classical Athens?

    Response for Week 11

    Cesar Rodriguez 774
    2024-11-18 21:54:23

    The reading I picked for this week The Allegory of the Cave. The reason I picked this reading was due to the discussion during class and its philosophical inquiry. The detail that stood out to me was Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is. This passage reflects that pour minds are totally renewed, once a new idea starts to dwell in it. Plato wants to express an analogy between knowing and not knowing. How our minds become vessels to new ideas. This tells us much about the moment Athenian were facing uncertainty and divide and needed to make sense of things.

    week 11

    Sean Fitzpatrick 765
    2024-11-17 22:46:05

    For this week I read The Allegory of the Cave from Plato. This reading stuck out to me cause I am familiar with the concept of the cave in the allegory but I had never read the work until this week. The idea that once a mind opens up to a new idea it never returns to its original size, once you've had your preconceptions shattered it is hard for you to continue trying to act according to those previous ideas. Plato was trying to communicate that knowledge has power, it can truly change a person to have their worldview expanded. This allegory was intended to be a wake up call I feel, possibly indicating that at the time it was written down people were becoming too secure if their false worlds and Plato had thoughts about that. This document seems to reflect that Athens was going through a period of self reflection and maybe that was not a very popular thing. I am curious if the Allegory of the cave was influenced by something Socrates told Plato, was it Plato's idea or Socrates'.

    Week 11 Response

    George Lorenzo 763
    2024-11-17 22:18:13

    The reading I picked for this week was Death of Socrates by Plato. The reason I picked this reading is because I found interested how Socrates was whiling to die for his ideals. One quote from the passage that stood out for me while reading is "The difficulty is not to avoid death, but to avoid unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death." This shows how for Socrates, staying true to our values is more important than simply trying to survive. This document tells us that ancient Athens valued free thinking but could also punish those who challenged tradition or authority. This document contradicts Athen's ideas of democracy as, the same society that valued debate and ideas also silence a thinker like Socrates. I would like to find out more about the impact of Socrates death in Athens. 

    Response #11

    Joanyvette Rivera 760
    2024-11-17 21:37:32

    The reading I picked for this week is On Epaminondas by Cornelius Nepos. A passage that stood out to me is when Cornelius states that Epaminondas was wounded by a javelin in the war; “when he saw that if he drew out the iron head of the dart he would instantly die, he kept it in until they told him “that the Boeotians were victorious…The iron head was then extracted, and at once he died.” This man loved his country so much he held on for as long as he could- until he received the news that Boeoticians defeated Sparta. Another passage that stood out to me was the last paragraph. Epaminondas did not have children, however he referred to his victory as his daughter who would live forever. The author of this document is communicating to us everything about Epaminondas. From his physique, his speech, habits, beliefs, etc. There was no other individual as patriotic as he. The document is also telling us about the battle of Mantinea, and how It was Epaminondas’ final battle. The document also tells us that during this time, there was a change in military tactics that ultimately contributed to Epaminondas’ victory (even though they were later perfected), which also supports our class discussion and textbook reading. The advancement of military weapons and tactics took Sparta by surprise. 

    Week 11 - "On Epaminondas"

    Dalvanice Dunning 748
    2024-11-17 17:39:13

    I picked “On Epaminondas” because I was curious about him.    

    The passage that jumped out to me was “The Battle of Leuctra,” I would like to know more about who he was in Thebe before becoming a warrior. I learned how proud and well-educated he was and he learned to play the flute, study philosophy also did gymnastics because he wanted to be a wrestler, but he used these skills in war. He was a fine man did not lie to anyone and was born into an honorable family, but he became poor later on and did not like to receive any reward. He never married and was a childless. Once asked about this matter he said it was better to leave a legacy for generations to remember and talk about. The author was trying to communicate that no matter the situation a person has in life education is the path to the future and from any hegemony. This document tells us about the time and places it comes from telling the truth, standing up to oneself, and never taking advantage of situations that will put one in jeopardy. Be educated and do the right things in life. This document seems to be more moral showing how well a person can be without being corrupted. I would like to find out more about how Greece rebuilt the country after all those wars. 

    Week 11

    Elias Mason 747
    2024-11-17 17:16:55

    I picked the “ Death Of Socrates “ because I find Socrates as a character and his questioning of traditional ways to be particularly interesting.

    One particular element of text that stood out to me in particular is the part where Socrates states “ But I had not the boldness or impudence or inclination to address you as you would have liked me to do, weeping and wailing and lamenting, and saying and doing many things which you have been accustomed to hear from others, and which, as I maintain, are unworthy of me”. I thought this part of the text was particularly interesting because Socrates stood his ground before his accusers even faced with death , he believed he was right and he wasn’t going to let fear of death convince him otherwise.

    I think the author is attempting to convey to us , that Socrates death was not Socrates accusers trying to kill Socrates In the flesh , but that they were attempting to kill what Socrates represented , which was questioning of tradition and self discovery . I think the other is suggesting that fear caused his accusers to make an example  of him, in attempt to kill off the generation of more free thinkers he would inspire . 

    I think this document tells us that Greeks  in Athens at the time of Socrates death , were moving away from the  accepting of tradition just because they were “ the old ways “ or the way things should be . The document suggest that those who opposed Socrates where  fearful of the power that came with questioning things.

    I believe the depiction of Socrates in this document contradicts some other depictions we’ve seen of him such as those by Aristophanes , because in this document , he is willing to die without hesitation to ensure that what he represents will live on symbolically against who he views to be a oppressor. This is a sharp contrast to the notion suggested in his work “ clouds “ where Socrates is  depicted as a sophist who engages in sophistry, helping others argue in support of the unjust.

    I would like to find out more about the public’s reaction to Socrates execution. Whether they thought it was just or unjust would be interesting to explore .

    The death of Socrates/ Plato

    Jasmine Hernandez 743
    2024-11-17 13:47:59

    The reading I picked was the death of Socrates by Plato. The reason I chose this reading is because we get to see in the eyes of Plato the “true” Socrates displayed and not how the public had portrayed him at that time. The detail in particular that stood out to me is Socrates calm demeanor to his death approaching and accepting the outcome due to believing death is just a part of the way of life and believes it just relieves the body of its physical existence. What I think the author was trying to communicate was to capture the essence of what Socrates was and stood for and not as someone who was corrupting the youth and did not believe in the gods.To point out his death was unjust due to him having different views compared to others within Ancient Greece at that time. What I think this document says about this time and place it comes from is how the people of this time especially those in power were very close-minded to new ways of thinking which I think is the reason that this may have caused more harm than good to their society at that time.  

    Week 11 Response

    Sidney Osei 734
    2024-11-16 09:56:23

    The reading that I picked was “The Battle of Leuctra” by Xenophon. The reason this reading stood out to me is because this gives evidence of a time that the Thebans defeated the Spartans. The detail that jumped out to me as I read through the document is how bright and radiant the family and friends of lost soldiers were after being given time to mourn. The friends and family of the Spartan soldiers who were still alive were barely seen, as if in humiliation. The author was possibly trying to communicate that it was ultimately better for the soldiers to lose their life during a loss where many soldiers died. This was more acceptable than living to tell the story of the battle lost. The document is telling us that during this time in the era of the fourth century crisis there were many battles and stasis between the Greek city states. The idea of hegemony and the one city state that is first among equals must arise as most powerful. Other readings seem to point out that there is a radical system followed by the Greek city-states. The Spartans in particular follow a win or die belief during battle and war. I would like to find out more about how the Macedonians end up defeating the Thebans and taking away their territory.

    Beginning Of The End or.......The Beginning of a Long Painful End of What was Once Great

    Michael McGinnis 733
    2024-11-14 22:04:56

    For this week's reading I chose The Death Of Socrates by Plato. It to me respresents the harbing or things to come and a bad culumination of a fruitless, 27 year war with no real results. Plato's death is one of the last culminations of The Peloponnesian War. Plato is in essence is served to choose shame or death being punished for those of the Thirty Tyrants in absentia who were not assassinated or captured yet. I think that is the real truth of Socrates's death. Once again as is much with the Peloponnesian War Athens is upside down and get its completely wrong. They in essence formulate a tyrannanical act against Plato in deep fear of an oligarchy returning or discouraging the rise of another in the interests of defending Athenian democracy. The end result shows what will lead to the slow extinction of the Greek city state ideals and identities, An unyielding society no matter what the political equation was with very little room for innovation and ingenuity politically. It will inevitably bury that said society or societies.