Ancient Greece
 

 

Weekly Responses

Post your weekly responses here.

 

Topic: Sparta and the Art of War

Due: Sun Sep 29

Prompt: What does the document you chose for this week tell us about Sparta?

The documents for this week are:

For your online response this week, write a post that includes the following:

  • Which reading did you pick? If there’s a reason it interested you, what was it?
  • What passage or detail in particular jumped out at you as you read through it?
  • What do you think the author was trying to communicate?
  • In your opinion, what is this document telling us about the time and place it comes from?
  • What about this document seems to relate to, support, or even contradict our other readings about this time and place?
  • What would you like to find out more about?

Responses for Week 5

Response for Week 5

[Former classmate] 536
2024-10-08 22:38:15

The reading I chose was The Spartan Way of living and I was interested in this reading because this was essentially putting us at the scene of Xerxes hatching his plan to invade Sparta and go to war with the spartans. The part that kind of stood out to me was who Xerxes was talking to. He was looking for the "truth" from someone who used to be a spartan but was banned and it was interesting to me how he's now helping Xerxes go to war with his own people. I think with Demaratos telling Xerxes that his chances in defeating the spartans is pretty slim and Xerxes being big headed and choosing not to believe it, it proves that not only does he not know what he's actually up against, but his morals and mindset is a prime example of what a leader shouldn't have. The spartans are big believers in fighting no matter what and don't go against the law while Xerxes as an autocratic emperor is setting his people up for failure. I think the author was trying to communicate the ways of thinking and how it can affect the outcome of whatever plan you're trying to execute.

Week 5: The Spartan Way of Living / Herodotos

Christopher Alvarado 529
2024-10-07 03:06:30

This week's reading identifies Sparta as a poleis organized around military excellence and strict social discipline. Among the Spartans, life was determined by the agoge, an extremely harsh education system that turned boys into hard-minded soldiers. For the Spartans, three orders existed: the Spartiates, full citizens who held the military and political powers; the Perioikoi, free non-citizens engaging in commerce; the Helots were serfs owned by the state, cultivating crops to keep the economy running. The government was a mix of monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy with its two kings, the council of elders or Gerousia, and the assembly or Apella. Education was based on strength, stamina, and absolute loyalty to the state, being, in essence, a reflection of the greater cultural theme in Sparta concerning military preparedness at the expense of other pursuits like art or philosophy.

The document further highlights the position of women as relatively empowered within Spartan society. Spartan women also were supposed to keep their bodies in shape, run the households, and contribute to the state by healthy offspring. The economy was agrarian; great use was made of the labor of Helots, while trade was minimal as the Spartans liked to rely on their efforts. This ascetic and self-sufficient way of life was aptly described by the Spartan ethos: "Come back with your shield or on it." It epitomized discipline, hardiness, and collective strength, characteristics that had priority among the Spartans over the individual will.

Week 5 Response

Ardit Gjaka 488
2024-09-29 23:49:19

I chose the reading on Spartan women because it was the one I did my presentation on. The passage that really stuck out to me was Gorgo's interactions with her father and others simply because I think it really encapsulates the pride of the Spartan women the most. When Gorgo is talking to her husband Leonidis and asks him how to show herself worthy of Sparta he simply says, "Marry a good man, and bear good children." This is because the main purpose of Spartan women was to birth good children that could fight for Sparta.

This document, to me, is trying to tell us of the role of Spartan women in ancient Greek culture. Their whole society and culture was built around warfare and honor with cowardice being treated as a crime worse than treason. This document was made based on a collection of sayings of real Spartan women so it provides us with a mostly unbiased and accurate description of the culture during that time. I only wish we could see more about their everyday life when they weren't fighting wars. Did the Spartans really fight and train all day? What did they do in their free time to promote culture or the arts?

Week 5

Sean Fitzpatrick 486
2024-09-29 23:20:03

For this week I chose to read Sayings of Spartan Women by Plutarch. I picked this reading cause hearing what ancient women thought is so rare to have in writing so it was something I had to take a look at. A big part of the passage that stood out to me was the pride the women had in how many sons they lost, it was seen as a badge of pride to have many sons die for Sparta, was almost comedic to me despite it not being something funny. Plutarch to me was communicating that the Spartan Women were just like their husbands, devoted to war. It becomes clear that other Greeks were curious if all of Sparta was like their warriors and when Plutarch got accounts from Spartan Women it shows that they wanted to hear about Sparta from someone who lives there. The document makes it clear that Sparta valued war and did not tolerate cowards, it was better for everyone to die in battle than one survive to warn Sparta of the enemy. I would like to learn more about the monotonous stuff they did, the truly relatable stuff that they did, everything I hear about Sparta supports the myth of Sparta and not Sparta as a people.

On the Spartan Constitution

Cesar Rodriguez 483
2024-09-29 22:10:05

For this week's discussion prompt, I chose On the Spartan Constitution by Aristotle. The reason why I chose this particular reading is because of its author and content. Known in his day as the equivalent of a Renaissance man, Aristotle puts to use his well-known rhetorical resources (ethos, logos, pathos) to work. The author is trying to communicate what he sees as flaws and loose ends in the Spartan Constitution. This document tells us, among other things, the widespread opinion in the Greek world of the freedoms enjoyed by Spartan women. Aristotle displayed the misogyny of his day by questioning the standard of luxury enjoyed by women in Sparta, which he sees as lack of decorum.

One of the passages that stood out for me was: The license of the Lacedaemonian women defeats the intention of the Spartan constitution and is averse to the happiness of the state. For, a husband and wife being each a part of every family, the state may be considered as about equally divided into men and women; and, therefore, in those states in which the condition of the women is bad, half the city may be regarded as having no laws. And this is what has actually happened at Sparta; the legislator wanted to make the whole state hardy and temperate, and he has carried out his intention in the case of the men, but he has neglected the women, who live in every sort of intemperance and luxury. Aristotle's view differs from the Spartan, whom for practical and logistics, afforded their women citizens a platform of more equity and freedoms. However, Aristotle's view is the widespread attitude towards women in Hellas, which Aristotle confirms in his views.

I would like to find out if there were other groups in Hellas who opposed to Aristotle and his views on women and their participation in society, experiment that worked for the Spartans, but why it was not imitated by other Greeks? Why, besides war and the absence of men, was this a unique Spartan phenomenon?

Responses - Week 5

Dalvanice Dunning 479
2024-09-29 20:28:06

*I picked The Spartan Polity because I was interested in knowing more about the population of Sparta to understand the politics and how the people lived under the king’s rule. * The Education and Upbringing of Boys. P. 163 “ The process of creating invincible warriors began at birth, for the state took upon itself the right to determine a newborn baby’s viability.” Learning how the government rulers treated the baby’s boy was upsetting. The king was cruel and unfair to the babies and they did not have life but grew miserable under the oppressed government control. * The author is showing in the reading how the society’s situation in Ancient Greece lived. The king wanted to show how the economy in his country and the cities were strong and well-ruled under his power. There was so much outrageous brutality and authoritarian government. * I believe this document tells us to do whatever we have today in the government systems, such as regulations, taxpayers, healthcare, jobs, etc. It is pretty much done with the rules of the past government, of course in a way better system because we have freedom. The people of the past were slaves of the king. How many arbitrarily from the oligarchy? These rulers in Ancient Greece did not have control but punished the poor people who did not have a voice or options to complain about abusive treatment. Society in the past, accepted whatever the regulations were, or they probably got in jail or killed. * This document does not contradict and it supports the other readings. Its reading is much clearer and more understandable. Our fourth edition textbook seems that I am reading the Old Testament in the Bible with so much vocabulary that we do not use today and the dictionary is the best friend to catch up. * I would like to find out if the society will be revolutionary and take over the king’s control. People in the past could make a move and find a way to rule their country, lands, and families and not the authoritarian king of government. 

Week 5 Response

George Lorenzo 475
2024-09-29 18:34:44

The reading I picked was The spartan polity written by Xenophon. The reason I picked this reading was because it talks about talks about the extreme methods, the spartan soldiers had to go under training. A particular detail that jumped out to me in the lecture was “Instead of softening their feet with shoe or sandal, his rule was to make them hardy through going barefoot. This habit, if practiced, would, as he believed, enable them to scale heights more easily and clamber down precipices with less danger.” here the author is trying to communicate how the Spartans training was one the toughest. They made sure their soldiers were built to fight barefoot if the occasion deems it. This document tells us about this time how the Spartans highest honor was to be a soldier and their disciplinesd was one for their highest strength. This document relates to our previous lessons as , the Spartans are the fitting example of what is to be Greek. Which Is, to drive towards the ideal society and become best at what they do. I would like to find out more about the Spartans fighting tecniques int the battle field. 

 

Week 5 : The Great Rhetra of Sparta

Jasmine Hernandez 465
2024-09-29 14:42:04

   The reading I chose to pick was The Great Rhetra of Sparta by Plutarch, because it depicts how the city-state shaped their political frame work with their Spartan constitution. The particular detail that jumped out at me was where it states to have a two king leadership and also a council of 30 elders. The reason it jumped out at me because it displays how Spartan’s creating a political system to have equivalent power unlike how it was before the Greek dark ages. 

       Before the dark ages with the Mycenaeans, there was no equal system amongst others, but almost “tyrant like” leadership. With Spartan’s creating an system where there is an balanced system for their society. What I think the author was trying to communicate was to show in a way how the Spartan’s were better than the predecessors before the Dark ages. To have an better leadership that includes their citizen’s to also be involved, helps the future of their society to move forward. With the past reading’s it has been evident that good leadership that people their people before their own, is what keeps a strong society elevated. 

Spartan Women

Julian Cocking 458
2024-09-29 02:09:36

The reading I picked this week was the "Sayings of Spartan Woman", by Plutarch. I picked this reading because I found it very interesting to learn about the life of spartan woman, as they were living the same lifestyle that men were living when their husbands were fighting in the war, just like what we learned about it in the prior class. One detail that jumped out to me was the backstories behind the main female protagonists. What the author is trying to communicate to us is the role of the women in the families. The women in this reading are either helping out the leader, or watching deaths of beloved family members. One factor that's not invovled in death or helping is the son of Damatria. The son of Damatria was very cowardly and was unworthy of his mother. This document supports the women of Sparta in this time. One reading that would contradict this one would be when we read about how Greeks colonized during the Archaic period as it was in deep turmoil. What I would like to find out more about is how the Spartan women were told about getting power and how was all this possible when men had the big say.

The Spartan Way Of Living

Michael McGinnis 449
2024-09-27 14:30:34

Persian King Xerxes does not see how the Greeks are not ripe to be defeated and subjugated under Persian control. The Persian Army is vast and the Greek combined army dwarfs it. Furthermore, the Greeks collectively are not a unified people further diminishing their odds of staving of a Persian invasion. Demaratus, the Spartan exile living with the Persians is sent for to give his assessment to Xerxes. Demaratus warns numbers and logistics do not matter. The Spartans are worth 10 fold a solider individually. But, the Spartans work as a team making their smaller numbers count for that much more. The Spartans are the best rained, the most disciplined, fearless and peerless in combat. Spartans also do not yield. Demarartus warns Xerxes this will be a battle to the last man when Spartans are involved and the costs may far outweigh the gains for Persia. Xerxes laughs off Demaratus concerns and lets him go on his way.

I chose this passage thinking this would be more about the lifestyle the Spartans lived but was treated to this tale instead. Again, the reputation of Sparta far proceeds itself in the known World of that time.

Response #5

Joanyvette Rivera 445
2024-09-26 23:58:51

The reading I picked for this week was the ‘Sayings of Spartan Women’ by Plutarch. It interested me because the textbook provided an excerpt from Plutarch’s ‘Life of Lycurgus’ in which he writes that young spartan females “exercised their bodies to produce strong embryos, and so that they would have the strength to bear their pregnancies and experience childbirth more easily.” I was curious to know what the women thought/ said regarding life as spartan wives/ mothers. 

There were honestly quite a few passages that stood out to me. The first being: “Being asked by a woman from Attica, “Why is it that you Spartan women are the only women that lord it over your men,” she said, “Because we are the only women that are mothers of men.” The second: “Another was burying her son, when a commonplace old woman came up to her and said, “Ah the bad luck of it, you puir woman.” “No, by Heaven,” said she, “but good luck; for I bore him that he might die for Sparta, Dand this is the very thing that has come to pass for me.” The last passage that stood out to me was “Another, when her son was being tried for some offence, said to him, “My child, either rid yourself of the charges, or rid yourself of life.” While these three passages are from different women, I believe the author was trying to communicate that the spartan women shared a common goal: to birth honorable sons. Women of Sparta had one primary role, to bear children: preferably healthy, strong males. 

This document is telling us that during this time and place, women were trained to breed strong men, not just physically but intellectually as well. A Spartan’s woman’s pride was when her offspring returned home a victorious warrior or died in battle as a fallen hero. Men who fled or surrendered in battle, or committed offenses were considered cowards and brought shame upon their mothers/ families. So much so, women recommended that their sons choose death instead. For example, there is an anecdote from a spartan woman who heard news of her son acting badly in a foreign land; she sent word to him telling him to stop conducting himself in that manner or else stop living.

This document supports our readings and class discussions because as we have learned, Sparta was a military society. It emphasized on military training for power and protection over it’s city-state. The Spartans placed extreme importance on creating “invincible warriors” from birth. To achieve this, it began with the women. From the age of 7, young boys were trained to endure hardships and to fend for themselves; becoming a warrior was their goal. The “ideal” man was to be courageous and skilled, and willing to give up his life for Sparta. It wasn’t until they were 60 that they could retire. Both men and women alike were called to be faithful to Sparta, even if that meant losing/ disowning their own flesh and blood. There was no tolerance for a dishonorable individual in the Spartan society.

Week 5 Response

Sidney Osei 441
2024-09-25 19:18:24

The reading that I picked was “The Spartan Way of Living” by Herodotos. The reason why this reading interested me is because I was interested in learning more about the Spartan lifestyle. The detail that jumped out to me when I read it was when the author mentioned that no matter if they were outnumbered the Spartans would fight to the death. I think that the author was trying to communicate that the Spartans value giving their all on the battlefield. They would like to live for not backing down no matter the circumstance. The document is telling us that during this time and place, the Persian King Xerxes is telling his truth unabridged to Demaratos, a Spartan exile. This document seems to relate to the earlier Greeks from Mycenaean. The Mycenaean Greeks wanted a powerful trade economy. Their ambition is very similar to the ambition of the Spartans. What I would like to find out more about is the Persians. What was their significance in relation to the Greeks in these ancient times?