Hi folks! The Greek world is changing dramatically during the transition from the Dark Age to Archaic Greece. Take a look at this week’s assigned primary source readings and let me know what moment or scene stands out to you. What are these authors telling us about this transformative time?

I was amazed by one segment of Plutarch's "Sayings of Spartan Women." It was the brief response by a mother when she learned that her son perished in the battlefield. She said, "Put him away, and his brother shall take his place." Her reaction reveals much about the lofty expectations placed on Spartans, but particularly mothers and their children. Personal grief came second after honor and what was required by the state. The mother's response demonstrates the powerful Spartan values of courage, obligation, and sacrifice.

Plutarch provides a stark illustration of just how deeply entrenched the ideals of duty and valor were in the social life of Spartan society, and in how much greater esteem these virtues were held than even the obligations due to one's own family or the affection which one felt for those whom one loved. Within this peculiar social climate, the women of Sparta were not simply passive recipients; they shared the heavy burden of inculcating and reinforcing these strict principles within their children and the society at large, thereby helping to ensure the perpetuation of a culture stubbornly dedicated to militarism and discipline. This view is entirely in keeping with what we would normally expect to encounter within the historical literature of the specific time period, and serves to underscore the degree to which Spartan values permeated and influenced nearly every facet of their cultural life; indeed, the cultivation of public esteem and actions of valor were very often seen as being of far greater moment than the vicissitudes of private lives and interpersonal relationships. As such, I am eager to pursue this topic further and explore in greater detail the manner in which these dominant social strictures influenced and shaped everyday life in Sparta; in particular, I want to take a close look at the ways in which these inflexible beliefs and practices touched Spartan families on a personal and emotional level, and uncover some of the nuances of their lives within this redoubtable society.

I was amazed by one segment of Plutarch's "Sayings of Spartan Women." It was the brief response by a mother when she learned that her son perished in the battlefield. She said, "Put him away, and his brother shall take his place." Her reaction reveals much about the lofty expectations placed on Spartans, but particularly mothers and their children. Personal grief came second after honor and what was required by the state. The mother's response demonstrates the powerful Spartan values of courage, obligation, and sacrifice.

Plutarch provides a stark illustration of just how deeply entrenched the ideals of duty and valor were in the social life of Spartan society, and in how much greater esteem these virtues were held than even the obligations due to one's own family or the affection which one felt for those whom one loved. Within this peculiar social climate, the women of Sparta were not simply passive recipients; they shared the heavy burden of inculcating and reinforcing these strict principles within their children and the society at large, thereby helping to ensure the perpetuation of a culture stubbornly dedicated to militarism and discipline. This view is entirely in keeping with what we would normally expect to encounter within the historical literature of the specific time period, and serves to underscore the degree to which Spartan values permeated and influenced nearly every facet of their cultural life; indeed, the cultivation of public esteem and actions of valor were very often seen as being of far greater moment than the vicissitudes of private lives and interpersonal relationships. As such, I am eager to pursue this topic further and explore in greater detail the manner in which these dominant social strictures influenced and shaped everyday life in Sparta; in particular, I want to take a close look at the ways in which these inflexible beliefs and practices touched Spartan families on a personal and emotional level, and uncover some of the nuances of their lives within this redoubtable society.

The reading that caught my attention was “Saying of Spartan Women” when it pointed out that “Spartan mothers were happy that their sons had died a brave death in battle, or furious that they had not”. It is shown how nationalistic Spartan mothers were and how they encouraged their sons to be brave and strong, which was an important role in shaping the strength and identity of Spartan warriors.

They were more free to manage property and be in the public sphere compared with other women in ancient history. They were considered strong characters and wisdom as well as independent.

I really like to learn about this women's role and how they impact Spartan society.

The Sayings of Spartan Women passage stood out to me greatly. It was interesting to see depictions of women who are far different from what we would presume women of that time to be like. It's interesting as I would assume readers at the time might laugh at the passage, as Spartans were always at war with others I would think other maybe rival communities would laugh at them. The different behavior of their women might be perceived as a communal flaw by the readers of that time as the women are acting out of their expected role, whereas as I read now I simply thing of how interesting a society it is. The question I am left with is how did the writer of the passage feel about Sparta and Spartan women?

  The passage that stood out to me the most is “Sayings Of Spartan Women” by Plutarch. Every comment from a Spartan mother was demeaning and heartless. Spartan women would only give their son’s a word of endearment if they died victoriously in battle and if they hadn't they would be disgraced. Especially if their sons came back to battle; Spartan women believed it was cowardly to return home and it is better to die at war instead. One of the responses that caught my eye was “ Another, when her son was being tried for some offence, said to him, “My child, either rid yourself of the charges, or rid yourself of life.” Mothers in society have always been displayed as loving, protective, and nurturing through history. Fathers have been displayed as tough and strict, reading about a mother with a fatherly trait was interesting. I believe the author was presenting to the readers a spartan women’s character, by their responses to receiving news of their son’s status in battle. This is a time when spartan men and women did everything they could by eating healthy and working out to have strong boys to later be fighting in battle. It was a clockwork routine raising a spartan. Your response presents your mindset and what you believe that was the author’s intention. “Sayings Of Spartan Women” differs from Sappho Poems because Sappho’s poems are about wanting to be with their loved ones and yearning for them. Spartan women want their pride to be complete by their sons fighting in battle and dying victoriously. These two sources show people wanting different things in life. Would Spartan women be more harsh or expect more from their daughters? How were spartan women raised and where did the tough love origin from? Is one of these poems based on Sappho’s personal life and where did she get her inspiration?

One detail that stood out to me from “Sayings of Spartan Women” by Plutarch is the tale of Gorgo. In this tale, a Spartan woman screamed "Father, the foreigner hasn't any hands!" when she saw Aristagoras of Miletus have his shoes put on and tied by a servant. This comment shows not only a distaste for luxury but also a great trust in self-sufficiency as a fundamental Spartan trait. To her, the idea of an able-bodied man depending on a servant for something as basic as changing his shoes stood as weakness and reliance, both of which were despised in Spartan culture. 

Plutarch seemed to be stressing the Spartan rejection of luxury and reliance on others. Stressing Gorgo's comment helps him to underline the idea that Spartans appreciated practicality, independence, and toughness. As a foreigner, Aristagoras stands for a way of life the Spartans hated, a way where one focused more on convenience and obedience than on hardship and discipline. This suggests that Sparta promoted a society in which even women were encouraged to not focus on luxury, cherish independence, and work hard. Unlike other Greek city-states where women had less influence, Spartan women were taught to live up to their male colleagues in terms of discipline and strength. The comment about the foreigner "not having hands" reveals that Spartans considered dependency on slaves as an unacceptable weakness and physical strength as a necessary ability. It also emphasizes the idea that in Sparta, effort and personal perseverance were really good markers of value. 

This story supports what we know about Spartan values, and how they felt about money, luxury, and slavery. I would like to find out how strongly Spartan civilization embraced a dislike for luxury. How did they demonstrate they were wealthy or powerful, Was being self sufficient really universal, or were there situations that wealthy Spartans subtly enjoyed luxury? Did they keep it hidden from other Spartans? It is a really interesting topic to discuss. 

I really like the way Spartan women spoke their minds. To me this signifies the beginning of feminism in ancient Greece. They were known for their tenacity and strength. It seems to me they were accustomed to this lifestyle from an incredibly early age. Plutarch reports that girls were handed over immediately after birth to the care of the woman. The saying that also stood out to me is when the Spartan mother handing over the shield to her son, as he goes off to battle says “come back with this or on it” meaning she would be proud no matter the outcome.

This is an example of a warrior culture, where you have the Spartan army, a warrior culture embedded within a warrior society where even the women, the mothers, the daughters are the providers and enforcers of the warrior ethic. If a Spartan warrior shows signs of cowardice in battle, when he would come back to Sparta, he would be met by girls singing songs of ridiculed.

Also noted that if a Spartan warrior showed signs of cowardice in war, the family would break off the engagement. The entire Spartan society was predicated around this one, they enforced the warrior concept and this warrior ideal, including the women of Sparta who valued warrior virtues.

The Sayings of Spartan Women by Sappho stood out to me this week because it goes against the nurturing qualities that typically are attributed to women in society today. To read about Spartan mother's deception with their sons returning from war without being victorious instead of being happy that they made back despite the blood shed was shocking in my opinion. Most mothers are grateful to have their sons return from war even if they weren't victorious. However, these mothers preferred death over the safe return as they viewed it as cowardly or a sign that they did not fight hard enough. These women saw it as a betrayal Sparta and dishonorable to say the least. The women in Sparta took a lot of pride in raising strong soldiers that would fight to death which again is not typical for women to be willing to not only send their child to war but hope that if they are not victorious that they do not return alive and this is seen as a weak man.

In this week's primary sources on Greece's recovery from the Dark Age, I noticed the prominence of evolving perspectives on gender and cultural expectations during this period, specifically regarding women's societal contributions and roles.

"Sayings of Spartan Women" by Plutarch emphasizes the confidence and assertiveness of Spartan women. One saying recounts a Spartan woman briefing her son not to return from battle without his shield. This fragment signifies the characteristics and the distinctive place of women in Spartan society. This source reflects Spartan society's militarism and communal dynamics, where women's physical fitness and moral fortitude were vital for maintaining their way of life. The dynamics of the environment and culture during that time and place influenced women in Spartan society to likely be firm and bold, differing from the portrayals of women found in other Greek city-states. Plutarch communicates that women in this place and time carried a considerable share of regard and leverage within society, differing from neighboring societies, whose women were often bound to domesticity. 

In comparison, Sappho dives into the concepts of love and personal relationships. Sappho underlined private life, identity, emotional expression, and desires, while on the other hand, Plutarch introduces Spartan women as embodiments of virtue and resilience. Notably, there is a difference between cultural expectations of women within Greek populations. Hesiod's Works and Days mainly focused on agricultural labor and familial roles. Hesiod gives the audience an understanding of the expectations of women, mostly related to domesticity and productivity. This primary source illustrates the traditional gender roles in various Greek city-states. This source demonstrates a conventional and contrasting perspective of women to the empowerment exhibited in examples of the women of Spartan society.

In Chapter 4 of Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity, Sarah Pomeroy dissects how the roles of women in Greek society transformed from the Dark Age into the Classical period. She studies the shift in expectations of women's behavior. The author uses examples such as women's participation in sacred rituals and festivals, increasing their visibility in public affairs, and promoting the idea that they had some freedom outside of the home, even though men were considered to have held the majority of authority within populations. Her work seems to challenge and argue against the entertainment of the idea that women were passive in the evolution of history. Pomeroy highlights how women's active roles in cultural and religious events led to a more balanced view of gender relations during that time. Her view differs from other works, suggesting a complex mix of the perceptions and interpretations of primary sources pertaining to concepts of limitations and empowerment. 

For insight into the fluctuations of gender roles, I would be interested in looking at specific women who broke traditional gender roles and seeing how these changing roles affected the period in which they took place and how they impacted later periods in history.I want to deepen my understanding of how different city-states shaped women's roles and public perceptions of femininity during this time. Also, studying how societies have differed on such topics can aid in understanding trends in culture and societies that developed either specifically after the Dark Ages or over time. I would like to have an overall clear picture of what life in different eras could've been like and how we connect or disconnect from one another regarding various concepts and aspects of life and the sustainability of society. Having taken the time to read some classmates' responses, I find it interesting how we share some of the same interests and how our questions can piggyback off one another. Gathering our questions and doing additional research would probably be very insightful in a variety of branching concepts.

The passage that jumped out to me was from Hesiod works and days under Social and Religious Advice Do not let a flaunting woman coax and cozen and deceive you she is after your barn. The man who trusts womankind trust deceivers. Which is saying that that a woman have deceitful and manipulative ways to get what she wants from a man. also a couple of details from the book also jump at me like the conspicuous prosperity of women while the state was floundering provoked criticism formerly permitted women to wear jewelry, cosmetics and perfume or dyed clothing, which cause economic condition in society as a whole, encouraged individuals to limited family size, divided wealth into very small parcels. And the marriage how father did not raise female babies unless they foresaw a proper marriage, husband live their army group until thirty, husband don't see their wife for the first twelve years of their marriage. How the Greek and Roman blame woman for the corruption of the earlier regime.

The author is trying to communicate the shifts in society the decline in population, reduced in trade, women roles became more restricted largely confined to the domestic spaces, laying the groundworks for the polis system new political structure.

In my opinion the document is telling us about the decline in the economic structures, the disappearing of the writing system and a new better civilization not just focusing on kings and war.

The document seems to support the shift in social collapse in trade, population and the loss of literacy.

What I would like to find out more about is the cultural memory and religious practices about marriage.

Disclaimer: If you prefer to bask in the glow of sentimental illusions, where love is divine, longing is noble, and Sappho’s sighs are the whispers of fate, consider this your stop sign. What follows is not a starry eyed homage to antiquity but a ruthless dissection of romanticized despair. Proceed only if you're prepared to strip the poetry down to its pragmatic bones.

Sappho’s obsession with invoking Aphrodite to “release [her] from this pain” (“Come to me now again…”) reeks of emotional bankruptcy. If love requires divine intervention to endure, what does that say about human agency? Here we have a grown woman, wealthy, educated, surrounded by “soft mats” and “girls with all they most wished for,” degrading herself into a desperate petitioner, begging a goddess to manipulate her lover’s heart. Pathetic.

“If she flees, soon she’ll pursue, / she doesn’t accept gifts, but she’ll give, / if not now loving, soon she’ll love / even against her will.”

This isn’t romance; it’s coercion masked as devotion. Healthy relationships aren’t built on divine strong-arming or lovers “against their will.” Sappho’s prayers to Aphrodite expose love as transactional, not transcendent: “Remember our gifts to Aphrodite” is emotional blackmail, not affection.

Sappho weaponized memory to shackle her lovers:

“If you forget me, think of our gifts… all the violet tiaras, braided rosebuds…”

Translation: Guilt-trip them with shared trinkets until they return. This isn’t love—it’s emotional hostage taking. Healthy bonds don’t rely on “remember when” to sustain themselves. The past is a graveyard, not a blueprint. If your relationship hinges on rehashing old trinkets (“myrrh poured on your head”), you’ve already lost.

Sappho’s scorn for the “country girl [who] has witched your wishes” (Andromeda) reveals her hypocrisy. She claims to champion women as “agents of desire,” yet mocks rivals for their clothing (“she hasn’t got the sense / to hitch her rags above her ankles”). If female empowerment means tearing down other women over fashion choices, count me out.

Her praise of Helen’s “active choice to flee with Paris” is equally hollow. Helen abandoned her child and kingdom for lust—Sappho frames this as liberation, but it’s just selfishness glamorized. Real agency isn’t about romantic recklessness; it’s about owning consequences.

Sappho’s infamous description of desire— “a delicate fire runs under my skin… greener than grass, needing but little to die”—isn’t lyrical brilliance. It’s a pathology. When love reduces you to trembling, sweating, and near-death, it’s not passion, it’s a mental health crisis.

Her fixation on physical collapse (“cold sweat rushes down me”) glorifies codependency. Why equate love with suffering? Because she can’t conceive of affection without possession. Compare this to her command to “think of our gifts”: love, for Sappho, is about control, not connection.

True equality isn’t about role reversal—it’s about abolishing roles. Human are defined by their actions, not their looks or words. Sappho’s women may “shine among Lydian women like the rose-fingered moon” (Atthis), but moonglow doesn’t feed ambition. Where’s the poem about building a school, leading a city, or forging a legacy beyond heartbreak?

Sappho’s work isn’t a celebration of love—it’s a manual for emotional masochism. Her world is one where women “pour light equally / across the salt sea” but drown in their own tears. If you want love, don’t pray to Aphrodite or pine over “rosebuds.”

Here’s what survival looks like:

Love yourself first. No deity can fill a void you won’t mend.

Act, don’t ache. Desire without action is delusion.

Reject nostalgia. Build futures, not shrines to the past.

As Sappho herself admits: “All must be endured.” But endurance isn’t enough. Conquer.

The readings of this week are impressive in terms of provoked feelings. In Sappho’s poems, the emotional intensity of longing and love is striking. Lines like “Go, and be happy but remember (you know well) whom you leave shackled by love” reveal the separation-related pain and the weight of unreciprocated affection. One can assume that Sappho seeks to communicate the deep nature of love and the character’s desire for connection. This reading illustrates a time when personal emotions were profound yet publicly expressed; it accentuates the cultural significance of love poetry in ancient Greece. Although her poems support other readings of the era, which emphasize the love’s role in human experience, they contrast with men’s poems and more war-centric texts. One can ask how Sappho’s woman-oriented works were received in her time, given their intimate subject matter.

Plutarch’s “Sayings of Spartan Women” offers a starkly different perspective. The passage where a mother questions the honor of her son’s death, “Was of the Spartan youth; she was of Sparta too,” underscores the immense pressure on Spartan men to embody valor. Plutarch aims to demonstrate Spartan women’s strength and independence, revealing how they shaped societal expectations. The text highlights a culture that revered military prowess and where women held significant influence, as seen in Gorgo’s assertive statements. It relates to other readings on Sparta, like Xenophon’s works, which depict a militaristic society, but adds depth by illustrating women’s roles. It is also interesting to explore more Spartan women’s experiences to understand their complexities further.

In its turn, Hesiod’s “Works and Days” provides a window into ancient Greek values and beliefs. The division of time into five ages, particularly the Golden Age, highlights a desire for a distant, more harmonious past. Hesiod’s exploration of ethics and the rigors of work communicates a society that valued both moral conduct and hard labor. The advice given to Perses, to avoid idleness and embrace work, reflects the realities of agrarian life. This reading complements Sappho’s emotional depth and Plutarch’s focus on societal roles, suggesting that both individual and communal responsibilities were pivotal in ancient Greece. I am also interested in how Hesiod’s views on the ages of man influenced later Greek thought.

A passage that stood out to me was “Hesiod: Works and days” the quote “ First of all, get a house, and woman and an ox for the plough- a slave woman and not a wife, to follow the own as well and make everything ready at home, so that you may not have to ask of another.” This quote not only talks about Hesiod’s views on women and the importance of hard work, but it also describes the way of living in Dark Age. Farming was very crucial to people staying alive. When he speaks of the Oxen and the hard work, and when he warns not to procrastinate, I believe he is making these statements because in those times, if you didn’t work your hands to the bone to eat, you would starve. He stresses the importance of hard work, not because of making money, or self worth, like in today’s society, but mostly because if you did not work hard, you would not survive. It shows it was a very harsh and dangerous climate in those times.

Not only does this quote talk about the importance of hard work, farming and survival, but it also comes back to the theme of women being inferior. In the quote Hesiod has women working right alongside with beasts, which again speaks to his opinion that women can and should be tamed and obedient.

He consistently describe women as an object in his writing, including saying never to get a wife, but to get a slave. In my opinion, Hesiod believes strongly that life is about hard work and hard work perhaps makes you a good person. But if being a hard worker does, in fact, make you strong and responsible and respectable, wouldn't a woman-slave be respectable, for doing all of that hard work. 

Hello Professor and Classmates,

A part of the passage that stood out to me was the following

' First of all, get a house, and a woman and an ox for the plough—a slave woman and not a wife, to follow the oxen as well—and make everything ready at home, so that you may not have to ask of another, and he refuses you, and so, because you are in lack, the season pass by and your work come to nothing. Do not put your work off till to-morrow and the day after; for a sluggish worker does not fill his barn, nor one who puts off his work: industry makes work go well, but a man who putts off work is always at hand-grips with ruin. meaning of reading for a12th grade short and clear.''

This passage stood out to me because it gives an advice Hesiod gave out for men to follow where he ruled. Though I do not fully agree with his advice. Hesiod gives advice about always being prepared and working hard for what you want. He says you should get the things you need, like a house, and a slave woman to help with farm work that he won't marry and to not depend on others, because they might not help you. Hesiod warns against putting off your work because delaying tasks will lead to failure. He encourages working hard and being ready, as this is the way to succeed in life and become of high power.

In this part of this reading the author is just communicating the way they would do things in Ancient Greece and what they believe in and the rules that they followed, which isn't wrong, but I do believe some of these rules are unfair. This document is also telling us about Ancient Greece and the way of privalchy, gender roles and attitudes towards the Gods that they had during this time. Something I would like to know more about would be did they ever fall in love with a slave or was it not allowed at all?

One thing that really stuck out to me was the Spartan mothers in Plutarch’s “Wisdom of Women Spartans.” They told their sons to come back from the battlefield with their shields or dead, meaning with their shields or on them. This shows how important honor, duty, and sacrifice were in Spartan warfare, and it also shows that a warrior’s goal was to win or die, not to give up.

Plutarch probably wanted to show how deeply ingrained these values were in Spartan society, like military discipline, bravery, and how both men and women lived up to them. By writing about what Spartan women said, he shows that they had a big role in keeping these values strong and suggests that Spartan culture wasn’t just about warriors, but also about the people who supported them. Plutarch told stories that fit well with what we know about Sparta’s military nature. But his stories sound different from the more personal songs of Sappho. While Spartan women in these stories showed strong loyalty to the wars, Sappho’s lyrics were about love and longing, and relationships were very important to her. This shows how different women were treated in different parts of the world. This society put a lot of value on military strength. At the heart of Spartan culture was constant war: both men and women were expected to help the state survive. Women, not as fighters themselves, were also important in spreading Spartan values; they taught their sons to be strong soldiers and shamed those who were weak in battle. This is different from Hesiod’s “Works and Days,” which talks more about farming, hard work, and being moral, not about warfare.

How much of Plutarch’s account reflects actual sayings versus idealized Spartan propaganda?

How did the lives of Spartan women compare to those of Athenian women beyond these warrior ideals?

How was Sappho’s poetry received in her own time, and did it challenge societal norms?