Women in Antiq.
 

 

Weekly Responses

Post your weekly responses here.

 

Topic: The Bronze Age and its Homeric Echo

Due: Sun Sep 29

Prompt: What do this week’s primary source readings tell us about ideas of gender in the works of Homer?

The documents for this week are:

For your online response this week, choose one of the primary source readings and write a post that includes the following:

  • Which reading did you pick? If there’s a reason it interested you, what was it?
  • What passage or detail in particular jumped out at you as you read through it?
  • What do you think the author was trying to communicate?
  • In your opinion, what is this document telling us about the time and place it comes from?
  • What about this document seems to relate to, support, or even contradict our other readings about this time and place?
  • What would you like to find out more about?

Responses for Week 4

No Resonance

Jay-Dani Guzmán 505
2024-10-06 11:09:29

Agamemnon's insult to Achilles has been one of the most puzzling pieces of lore for me to understand. Now I can put in perspective the monetary system, or lack thereof that informs the meaning of the transaction, however forced that takes place between the two characters. Notwithstanding the new information I have acquired this week I would say it is not as interesting as the previous and forward lessons. If I speak honestly, the whole plump around Odysseus and his plight home to Penelope wears me out. Though I have become s familiar with it as the net guy, I find no resonance with it.

Week 4

Emely Sánchez 489
2024-09-30 00:55:34

The passage I chose was "Nausicaa and the Stranger" from The Odyssey. This passage was a story about a young royal women named Nausicaa who happens to meet a stranger while she is at the river washing her clothes. What I found extremely interesting about this passage was the interactions between Nausicaa, her maids/other women, and the stranger. Nausicaa's maids/the other women's initial reactions to the stranger were to run away; acting in fear. While Nausicaa's reaction wasn't that at all. In fact, her reaction was to help/aid the man; to show him some guidance, kindness and compassion instead. Nausicaa even says this explicitly to her maids: “Stay where you are, you girls. Can you not see a man without running away from him? Do you take him for a robber or a murderer? Neither he nor anyone else can come here to do us Phaeacians any harm, for we are dear to the gods, and live apart on a land’s end that juts into the sounding sea, and have nothing to do with any other people. This is only some poor man who has lost his way, and we must be kind to him, for strangers and foreigners in distress are under Zeus’s protection, and will take what they can get and be thankful; so, girls, give the poor fellow something to eat and drink, and wash him in the stream at some place that is sheltered from the wind.”

This passage does really well in highlighting the role women serve in ancient society. That they are meant to provide as well as maintain an image of wisdom, guidance, intelligence, and strength/stability. Nausicaa perfectly illustrates in thsi passage how the role of women is played out. How women are able to provide aid and guidance to men while not compromising their public image at the same time. She explains: “I am afraid of the gossip and scandal that may be set on foot against me later on; for the people here are very ill-natured, and some low fellow, he met us, might say, ‘Who is this fine-looking stranger that is going about with Nausicaa? Where did she find him? I suppose she is going to mar him. Perhaps he is a vagabond sailor whom she has taken from some foreign vessel, for we have no neighbours; or some god has at last can down from heaven in answer to her prayers, and she is going to live with him all the rest of her life. It would be a good thing if she would take herself off and find a husband somewhere else, for she will not look at or of the many excellent young Phaeacians who are in love with her.’ This is the kind of disparaging remark that would be made about me, and could not complain, for I should myself be scandalized at seeing any other girl do the like, and go about with men in spite of everybody, while her father and mother were still alive, and without having been married in the face of all the world." This excerpt in particular really stood out to me along with the paragraph afterwards in the passage because it really seems to emphasize how women are such an integral part in ancient Greek society/the patriarchal society at that.

Week 4 Response

Chinazom Elem 485
2024-09-29 22:36:26

I picked "Homer: Nausicaa and the Stranger" from the Odyssey because the meeting between Odysseus and Nausicaa gives a deep look into Greek culture, especially their ideas about hospitality and social roles. The part that caught my attention was how Nausicaa, even though she’s a young princess, bravely helps Odysseus, a stranger in need, showing both kindness and wisdom. Homer seems to be highlighting the importance of *xenia*, or hospitality, which was a big part of Greek life. The story shows that in ancient Greece, treating strangers well was not only polite but also a moral obligation. It also reflects how women were expected to be both respectful and careful, as Nausicaa helps Odysseus but follows social rules to avoid gossip. This idea of hospitality connects with other parts of the Odyssey, like when Odysseus is treated badly by the Cyclops, showing what happens when hospitality is ignored. I’d like to explore more about how these customs of hospitality influenced relationships between different city-states in Greece. It would also be interesting to learn how this affected trade and diplomacy in the ancient world.

Week 4

Gerieneldo Solano 484
2024-09-29 22:30:55

In The Odyssey, Penelope’s cleverness is especially impressive in how she handles the pressure from her suitors while staying loyal to Odysseus. A key part of this is her well-known trick of weaving and then undoing Laertes’ funeral shroud. She tells the suitors she’ll pick a new husband once it’s finished, but each night she secretly unravels what she’s done, delaying her decision for years. This smart move shows her resourcefulness, intelligence, and strong hope that Odysseus will come back, highlighting her patience and loyalty. In The Odyssey, through the artifice of Penelope, Homer seems to communicate several important themes: the power of intelligence, the complexities of loyalty, and the agency of women within a patriarchal society. This document from The Odyssey reflects a time and place where traditional gender roles and values such as loyalty, patience, and cleverness were highly respected. The way Penelope is portrayed shows that women, though often expected to be passive or subservient, could also exhibit intelligence and strategic thinking within the boundaries of their roles.

Response for Week 4

Yvelise Peña 480
2024-09-29 20:58:46

This week, I have selected to examine the passage “Nausicaa and the Stranger” from the Odyssey. The article discusses different aspects of its historical and geographic context. The focus on xenia (hospitality) reflects a realm in which travel was hazardous and visitors relied on the benevolence of others. Nausicaa's compassion toward Odysseus, despite his status as a stranger, clearly reflects her fear of divine wrath for neglecting hospitality. Furthermore, it underscores the significance of social hierarchy and gender roles in ancient Greece. Nausicaa's apprehension regarding gossip highlights the stringent societal demands imposed on women, including those of royal status. Not standing for her elevated status as a princess, she is acutely cognizant of her position within the social hierarchy and the repercussions of violating societal norms.

The most notable aspect was Nausicaa's shift in her attitude towards Odysseus. Initially apprehensive, she subsequently likens him to deities, stating, “Upon first encountering him, I perceived him as unremarkable, yet now his visage resembles that of the gods residing in the heavens.” Athena’s intervention highlights the gods' active role in shaping not only fate but also mortal perceptions of one another in Homer’s world. It also emphasizes Nausicaa's blend of worldly wisdom and innocence—she is prudent yet still influenced by divine omens. I seek to gain a deeper understanding of the role of women in ancient Greek literature and culture, particularly the comparison between their depiction in writings such as the Odyssey and their actual societal duties. Nausicaa holds a unique position in which she possesses a degree of liberty while still being constrained by cultural norms.

Wk 4

Indira Nichols 477
2024-09-29 19:31:49

I choose the reading, Nausicaa and the Stranger from Homer's writings. I was intrigued by the subtle romantic tension between Nausicaa and Odysseus, especially considering that Nausicaa was awaiting marriage. The passage where Odysseus approaches Nausicaa was particularly interesting to me. Despite his messy appearance, he made an effort to put her at ease before asking for her assistance as he was just in a shipwreck. He even compares her to a daughter of Zeus. I believe the author intended to highlight Nausicaa's kindness and maturity through this interaction. The story also contrasted the maids' fear of Odysseus with the princess's courage and lack of judgment, reflecting the values of the time which placed importance on hospitality and kindness to those in need.

week 4

Alassane Sibane 474
2024-09-29 18:19:34

I picked the article of penelope.One feature that frequently comes up in conversations about Penelope's artifice is her creative use of the loom. The thought of her weaving a tapestry by day and unwinding it at night is compelling. It represents her ingenuity and resistance against the pressures of the suitors. This act of weaving and unweaving not only demonstrates her devotion to Odysseus, but it also serves as a metaphor for the difficulties of her predicament, which involves balancing optimism and despair.Penelope's complexity as a character and her significance as a representation of tenacity and cleverness in the face of misfortune are perhaps the author's main goals. Through emphasizing her artifice, especially her weaving, the author highlights issues of intelligence and the nuanced dynamics of power in relationships.Penelope is a symbol of the fight for agency in a patriarchal culture, showing that women can have an impact even in difficult situations. Her narrative also highlights the emotional cost of waiting and the endurance needed for loyalty and love.The text captures the ideals and social hierarchies of Bronze Age Greece, especially with regard to gender roles, loyalty, and cunning. Penelope's persona symbolizes the narrow yet significant roles that women can occupy, demonstrating how she uses cunning and fortitude to survive in a patriarchal society. The suitors' presence emphasizes the unstable power dynamics of the era, but her steadfast devotion to Odysseus illustrates the traditional value of fidelity and honor in partnerships. The respect of her intelligence over her physical prowess points to a society that views wisdom as a kind of power, exposing a nuanced web of ideas that speak to the inflexible social mores of the time.This text connects to prior readings on ancient Greek culture by reiterating important ideas about the importance of intelligence, loyalty, and the nuances of gender roles. It highlights the value of honor and faithfulness in relationships, especially in the setting of epic tales, just like other books from this era. Penelope's resourcefulness suggests a society that values intelligence over physical power, which is consistent with the way crafty heroes are portrayed in Greek mythology.

week 4 response

Emely Corcino 472
2024-09-29 17:59:42

The reading I chose this week was "The Artifice of Penelope (from The Odyssey)". This reading was interesting to me because it showed the type of person Penelope was which was a noble loyal wife to her husband Odyssey. The reason I say that is because even though Odyssey wasn't around he told Penelope if he isn't back and their son has a beard to leave their land, leave their home and go remarried to the suitor who were professing their love to Penelope. Even with Odyssey telling Penelope to not wait for him and live her life and with all the mens lined up for her she still waits and decides to be faithful and wait for Odyssey returns. I feel like the author wanted to show the type of undying love both Penelope and Odyssey had for one another and the love conquer all; but I also feel like the author was trying to show how the modern Geek marriage were like especially for women who had the same role as Penelope. I believe this document tried to prove how a women's loyalty to her husband could benefit in the long run. I would like to learn how the God and Goddess played the roles in others marriages like Athena played the role in Penelope and Odyssey marriage.

Response for Week 4

[Former classmate] 471
2024-09-29 17:42:20

the reading I chose this week was Agamemnons insult . what interested me about this reading was the struggle of power.it showed tension pride and authority .the leader of the greeks shows power over achilles . one thing that jumped out to me in the reading was Achilles. Achilled felt the what he brought to thhe war was not precieved well by others. achilles felt like there was not much appreciation cfor him and his doings. I think the Author was trying to communicate leadership and to be fair. the issue of justice and the use of power and what power can do to one. the time and period of this read shows the importance of power . this relates to other texts that we looked at throught the class about what power can do for you .

Week 4 Response

George Lorenzo 470
2024-09-29 17:34:13

The reading I picked for this week was The Artifice of Penelope (from The Odyssey) By Homer. This reading interests me because it talks about Penelope, after her husband Odysseus leaves her to go to war, she takes care of her family. Penelope stays loyal to her husband for twenty years while he is absent and presumed to be dead. 

 The passage that jumped out to in the story is when Odysseus says “Wife, we have both of us had our full share of troubles, you, here, in lamenting my absence, and I in being prevented from getting home though I was longing all the time to do so.” what I think the author is trying to communicate is , that Odysseus absences and troubles, makes him more humble and wise when he comes back home. As he understands that his wife also suffered from him being gone for so long and not knowing if he was alive. 

What this document is telling us is how in this period, a women's commitment and loyalty can be one the greatest assets for a man. As she puts her family first and honors the wishes of her husband even when he's presumed to be dead. This document relates to our other readings from this period, as this another time where women show, they are wiser and fundamental in a man's life. I would like to find out more about women's role in ancient society. 

Response for Week 4

Raja K Ajaz 467
2024-09-29 16:01:47

The reading I have chosen for this week's response is "Agamemnons Insult." I have chosen this particular reading because of how shallow and prideful the Mycenaean Greek leaders are shown. For instance, after kidnapping the daughter of a priest of Apollo named Chryses to take as a war "prize," the god sends down divine calamities unto the Greek forces. To stop this, the other Greek leaders attempt to persuade Agamemnon to give her back to her father, which upsets the king, who sees this as an assault on his pride as a warrior. Homer writes, “Do not in this way, valiant though you are, godlike Achilles, try to deceive me by your cleverness, for you will not outstrip me nor persuade me. Do you really intend, so long as you yourself keep your prize, that I sit here like this lacking one, since you ask me to give her back? Let the great-hearted Achaeans give me a prize, suiting it to my heart so that the recompense is equal! But if they do not give it, then I will come myself and take your prize, or that of Aias, or that of Odysseus I will seize and carry off." Being insulted himself by this, Achilles takes his forces and leaves the fighting. With the loss of their greatest warrior, the Greeks incur even more losses at the hands of the Trojans.

I find this to be interesting because it perfectly exemplifies what the later "Hellenic" Greeks would detest about their ancestors. The concept of prideful and glory-hungry leaders and soldiers who put their own personal glory and importance over the greater cause would have surely been looked down upon. To make sure this problem would never arise again, the Greeks adopted the phalanx army formation, which would ensure that soldiers would work together to ensure victory instead of putting one person at the helm of the victory. Homer expertly encapsulates the most horrid traits of these legendary "heroes" in just this small excerpt.

Week 4

Jasmine Hernandez 463
2024-09-29 13:51:39

The reading I chose was The Artifice of Penelope ( from Odyssey). What I find interesting about this reading is how dedicated Penelope is to stay loyal to Odysseus even though she is unsure of him being alive or dead. The particular detail that jumped out at me is when it says Penelope had an great frame that she would need to do fine needlework to complete and once it’s completed she will find an suitor but she kept undoing her work every night. The reason it jumped out at me because it shows Penelope’s cleverness to delay to remarry. 

      What I think the the author was trying to communicate is to show possibly how Ancient Greek women were in their marriage at that time especially women married in power. Virtuous women were respected highly amongst men of this time so I feel the author having Penelope being loyal to her husband although he has been gone for such a long time, still displayed her being honorable. What I think this document was trying to tell us about the time is the marriage dynamic during Ancient Greece. This document supports how married women upheld the “ matron role” especially within the household and family dynamic.  

Week 4 Response

[Former classmate] 462
2024-09-29 13:09:35

The reading I chose was "The Artifice of Penelope". The part that stood out to me was Odysseus and Penelope are finally reunited. Odysseus finally meets Penelope again after a long trip. They talk about their troubles and grief all night, from Odysseus's travels to Penelope's problems with the suitors. The story shows how being apart affected them physically and emotionally, and it ends with Odysseus getting ready to go see his father, Laertes. One standout point the author communicated was the power of love and loyalty. Odysseus and Penelope finally get back together after being apart for years and going through a lot of hard times and confusion. Even though they both went through hard times—Odysseus on his dangerous trip home, and Penelope with all the suitors coming to her house—their love for each other never changed. Penelope's loyalty is stressed by the fact that she ignored the suitors' advances for years while she waited for Odysseus. This story perfectly illustrates the Ancient Greek culture of its time. During these times men were the providers and protectors and the women maintained the household and were loyal to their husbands. This story perfectly shows that throughout.

Response for Week 4

Mayim Rabsatt 461
2024-09-29 12:33:53

For this week’s response I have chosen to analyze the reading “Nausicaa and the Stranger” from the Odyssey. I chose this tablet because of the depiction of Nausicaa, specifically in the interactions she has with other male characters in the reading. In this excerpt from the Odyssey, Nausicaaa is portrayed as the maiden archetype, specifically the idealized version of this archetype. The maiden archetype is presented as a virginal young woman, whose strength is in their purity which men cannot attain. In this excerpt, Nausicaa is shown to prioritize both her family and her public image, through the decisions she makes. At the start of the story, Nausicaa asks her father for a wagon so she can wash the family’s clothes by the river, stating a man of his status should not be in dirty clothing. Upon meeting Odysseus Nausicaa immediately proceeds to help him, directing him to the town but not going into town with him to avoid any gossip or future conflict. I think that Nausicaa prioritizing the needs of her family as well as their public image is a depiction of the “perfect maiden” as well as the power women hold in the private space as well as wisdom. Wisdom is noted as a female trait displayed in Nausicaa’s wise decision not to go into town with Odysseus as well as her advising him to speak to her mother.

week 4

Hanifah Ahmed 451
2024-09-28 14:04:24

Out of all the readings, the one that stood out to me was Agamemnon’s Insult. The line that particularly resonated was, "It is not because of a vow that he blames us, nor a hecatomb, but because of the priest whom Agamemnon dishonored, and did not release his daughter nor accept the ransom." This explains the reason for Apollo's wrath against the Greeks.

The author communicates the consequences of pride through the conflict between Agamemnon and Achilles. Agamemnon’s refusal to return Chryseis not only jeopardizes his own position but also endangers the entire Greek army. This dynamic illustrates how personal pride and dishonor can lead to collective suffering.

In my opinion, this document reveals that during this time, leadership and power dynamics were critically important. This reading supports other texts we’ve explored in class, highlighting the theme that someone always holds power over another, and that both mortals and gods can let their egos and pride obstruct their success.

Week 4 Responses

Kaylah Sanchez 448
2024-09-27 11:05:27

  Something that stood out for me was in this reading is Nausicaa's compassionate encounter with Odysseus, where she offers him help instead of fear. The author seems to communicate themes of hospitality and the strength of women, highlighting Nausicaa's bravery and kindness. This passage reflects the values of ancient Greek society, emphasizing the importance of welcoming strangers and showing generosity. It aligns with other readings about this era, where hospitality is a significant cultural norm, but it also contrasts with the often male-dominated narratives by showcasing a woman's agency. I’d like to explore more about the role of women in Greek mythology and how their actions influence the male heroes.

Response for week 4

Marlene Mata 446
2024-09-27 02:14:30

The reading I picked was Nausicaa and the Stranger the reason I picked this reading was because growing up i really enjoyed watching the movie Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind I wondered if it was similar or had similar themes. A passage that jumped out to me was "Then she called her maids and said, “Stay where you are, you girls. Can you not see a man without running away from him? Do you take him for a robber or a murderer? Neither he nor anyone else can come here to do us Phaeacians any harm, for we are dear to the gods, and live apart on a land’s end that juts into the sounding sea, and have nothing to do with any other people. This is only some poor man who has lost his way, and we must be kind to him, for strangers and foreigners in distress are under Zeus’s protection, and will take what they can get and be thankful; so, girls, give the poor fellow something to eat and drink, and wash him in the stream at some place that is sheltered from the wind.” The reason thus jumped out to me is because seeing a princess be depicted as so kind to someone who isn't even her subject and willing to give resources to a man to who many feared is a beautiful way to show young woman's care compassion and qualities I think the author was trying to communicate many points like being understanding towards someone, caring loving being interested in their tory and not fearing the unknown even if someone looks more different than you but also being considerate of what they want, many people say beggars can't be choosers but you can do their best to fulfill those wishes and respect them. In my opinion this document tells us about a time of kings and queens were alliances were very important but also how women were viewed as more reasonable but also more with power when it came to certain domestic relationships as we saw Nausicaa wishes for him to talk to her mother as she's in charge and reasonable I wis we got more detail on their relationship after he gets help and if they ever continued talking or such.

Response for Week 4

Christopher Varian 440
2024-09-25 10:04:26

For the most part Homer’s depiction of women is mainly as objects in the games and contests of men with few gaining some agency albeit in a less conspicuous manner. In “Agamemnon’s Insult” women are referred to as “prizes” that men win by defeating other men in battle. All the soldiers sit around discussing the situation with Agamemnon’s prize, who happens to be the daughter of a priest who has the favor of Apollo. He is being compelled to give her back, not because what they are doing is morally wrong but to appease the gods. This angers Agamemnon greatly and he engages in a heated argument with Achillies. During this argument he says to Achillies, “I will myself come to your hut and take the fair-cheeked Briseis, that prize of yours, so that you may well know how much mightier I am than you, and another too may shrink from declaring himself my equal and likening himself to me to my face”. Briseis is not her own person but identified as Achillies’ property, his prize. In order to show Achillies who truly has the power Agamemnon threatens to take her for himself. By taking Briseis from Achillies, Agamemnon seeks to shame him. Briseis is just the fodder for the sport of men and their displays of manhood. Nausicaa does help Odysseus, but she must also beware of perceived slights against her person. She must go ahead of Odysseus because she is still unwed and cannot risk her reputation. However, it is Queen Arete, that Nausicaa instructs Odysseus to speak with if he wants help. This implies a different power dynamic from the usual one. Yet, it is King Alcinous who sits on the throne, and she sits by the spindle. But mortal's lifespan was also determined by a spindle. Queen Arete may have the power or influence, but the appearance remains traditional with King Alcinous being the power. Penelope is being pursued by several suitors when it is presumed that Odysseus is dead. They do not come to her with gifts but have been taking advantage of her and her resources. In the beginning she is able to deceive them, but eventually her deception is uncovered. Beyond underlining the deceptive nature of women, Penelope in a sense falls apart though with the loss of Odysseus. She spirals down into grief that stretches for decades. Penelope is shown to have some wit and cleverness, but she also is swallowed up by her grief, making her less substantial. Many ordinary, non-goddess women are defined by their association and relationship with men. This seems to be in line with the depiction of females so far. Goddesses live lives very different from mortal women and partake in a more diverse range of activities. Whereas mortal woman have very defined roles and lanes they are expected to occupy.