As reading towards Section 3 and 4, the passage that stood out to me in particular was when Strepsiades had come to the 'Clouds' for reassurance since the matter of Zeus isn't apparent within the Thinkery. He feared of the means of what would occur to be a thinker while Socrates kept pusing for him to go within or else he would never know. The factor that Strepsiades had to strip himself of his clothing and deal with the aspect of honey cake does make the means of a person and ask a multitude of questions. As to why does one need to do all this for the matters of thinking? Which it does make Strepsiades have a plethora of questions but the Socrates of the Thinkery makes him think of absurb questions with absurd answers to follow his aspect of learning with the means of female names and male names having different nomecultures to them.

I believe Aristophanes was trying to utilize this time that Socrates was having with Strepsiades to even initiate the madness that this man is creating for the means of Athens to hear. I think having an intimate moment between the two characters definitely would show the thought process of the teacher of the Thinkery, mainly they have just been outside and congregating of the means that is right and wrong to them; but now within the domains of the school - it is more of a personal touch or a better understanding to the means of Strepsiades and his vow to coming to the Thinkery with the help from the Socrates and his lessons given.

In the lines 185 253 of "Clouds," there is a discussion of "just speech" in contrast to "unjust speech". In this section, Socrates explains to Strepsiades how one can manipulate language and arguments to achieve desired outcomes, emphasizing the contrast between morally sound arguments and those that are crafted to deceive or outsmart others. The use of clever arguments to outsmart adversaries demonstrates how education, when separated from ethical considerations, can lead individuals down morally questionable events.

This part of the play highlights Aristophanes' critique of sophistry and the potential moral pitfalls of using rhetoric without a foundation of virtue. In presenting these ideas through humor and satire, Aristophanes makes it more encouragable to his audience to reflect on the true purpose of education through exaggeration and possible laughs as of result of his redicule of society. His perspective was that to cultivate virtue rather than merely a tool for personal, superficial gain.

In this week's reading of Aristophanes' Clouds, the passage where the hen and cock engage in their spirited argument particularly stands out. Aristophanes uses this peculiar debate to illustrate the ridiculousness of sophistic rhetoric, which had corrupted Athenian intellectual life. The animals embody the characteristics of debaters and parody the logical extremes to which sophists would go. This scene cleverly criticizes the sophists' method of argumentation, suggesting that it could turn even the most fundamental truths of nature upside down. Aristophanes appears to warn against the perversion of thought through sophist methods, highlighting the danger of prioritizing rhetorical skill over genuine knowledge and moral insight. He underscores the potential disconnect between sophisticated argumentation and practical, ethical living with humor and absurdity. He urges his audience to be wary of eloquence that serves deception rather than truth. I would like to learn about the daily conflicts of the urban sophists and the rural theocrats and how polarized it made Athenian society.

The passage that jumped out to me when I read these sections was the part where Socrates catches Strepsiades playing with himself on the flea ridden mattress. It surprised me because I did not realise that ancient plays would have such a dirty nature to them, however it seemed quite light hearted in the text itself.

I think the author was trying to communicate how ridiculous the exercise was. It ridicules the equipment for the deep thinking by making the mattress dirty and uninhabitable. Strepsiades doing his business on it makes the whole thing a complete joke, and implies sophistry is not actually a respectable practice. Although in this scene Strepsiades is portrayed as the fool, I think unconscious disrespect for Socrates methods makes Socrates look more silly than Strepsiades.

I would like to know if these sort of themes are common in other ancient texts, and perhaps I could study this in my essay on Clouds.

After reading section 3 and 4 of clouds, the one part that stuck out to me was when Strepsiades was trying to convince his son to join the thinkery. He does this by reiterating his lessons from Socrates. What I found most interesting was that although these lessons made sense to Strepsiades, to Pheiddipides it all sounded like nonesense.

I think that by doing this, the author is trying to make fun of the thinkery. The author could be telling us that in Athens, philosophy is the problem. The people of this city probably saw it the same way that Strepsiades did. By adding the dialogue with Pheiddipides, he wants to sort of remind the audience how ridiculous the whole thing is.

I would like to know why? Why make fun of philosophy? I know that the author belived in tradition but why attack the practice of philosophy specifically. Could it be because it's what contributed to the belief in "universal truth"?

A passage that suck out to me was from line 365 to 380 where Socrates and Strepsiades were discussing where rain and thunder comes from, in this passage Strepsiades was stating that Zeus made rain and thunder and Socrates argued that rain came from clouds and thunder came from the clouds colliding into each other and the difference in their density. The reasoning that this passage stuck out to me is because this discussion shows the difference in beliefs between Socrates and Strepsiades, while Strepsiades took a more religious belief it was clear that Socrates had a more scientific way of thinking. Socrates even goes on to say that Zeus does not exist which in societies that are very religious that could be seen as extremely offensive. This passage is important in the sense that it reflects the difference in beliefs both religiously and theocratically that Socrates held compared to Strepsiades. Also Socrates stating that he doesn't believe in Zeus could potentially turn him into an outcast in his community which is another reason why this particular passage stands out to me, his lack of belief in Zeus could hurt him within his community, this also would reflect negatively on the thinkery, the people there could be labeled as sinners.

A detail in particular jumped out at me as I was reading through this week’s primary source reading: In the Archaic Age, circa 500 BCE, the king didn’t hold the most. For example, “Ephors to uphold the authority of the kings, but if the Ephors believed that a king was violating his trust, they had the right to impeach him” (206). This shows the Ephors had more power than the kings if they had authority over them.

Aristophanes' "The Clouds" offers a nuanced portrayal of ancient Athens' philosophical and intellectual trends, critiquing Socratic philosophy for undermining traditional values, sophistry for prioritizing rhetoric over truth, and scientific inquiry through parody. The play showcases vibrant philosophical debates and tensions between critical thinking and societal expectations, providing valuable insights into the intellectual climate of 5th-century Athens, with Socrates as a central figure embodying these trends."The Clouds" addresses tensions between tradition and innovation, concerns about education, and the corruption of youth by radical ideas. Aristophanes warns against unchecked intellectualism, emphasizing the importance of balance between critical thinking and societal expectations.

The play prompts reflection on truth, knowledge, authority, and intellectuals' roles. Aristophanes encourages critical evaluation of established values and ideas, fostering philosophical discourse 

The passages in particular jumped out at me in ‘Clouds’ section 3 and Section 4, is how Aristophanes exaggerates Socrates as being a corrupter of youth and shows him to be a ridiculous, almost mystic character at the head of some sort of "Thinkery." It is in the section 3, where Socrates' ridiculous teachings on how to get out of debt and playing with words show Aristophanes' attack on those sophists who replace moral integrity with rhetoric. This passage resonates because it identifies a real fear in Athens at this time: that new educational practices threatened old values and respect for the gods. Indeed, by the point in Section 4 of the play where Strepsiades attempts to learn these rhetorical tricks himself-and fails comically-Aristophanes uses this failure to underline the notion that the practice of sophistry is hazardous to the badly fitted or unprepared. This satire on education questions how far rhetoric should be pursued and demands the morality of intellectualism which disregards virtue.

In ‘Clouds’, Aristophanes seems to warn against the possible insidiousness of new intellectual currents-particularly the rise of sophism and a kind of education that prizes cleverness at the expense of ethical integrity. Meanwhile, Aristophanes shows Socrates as a caricatured sophist, conducting a "Thinkery" full of bizarre theories and moral depravity, outraged that some people juggled words and arguments to win a case at any cost, without stopping to find the truth or wisdom. The play reveals how the author is concerned that, with Athenians being swept along by new philosophies, they may lose their ethical grounding and disrespect conventional values and gods. Aristophanes takes the mask of Strepsiades, now acquainted with all the sophistic tricks to cheat his creditors, to ask humorously yet pointedly if intellectualism without virtue is more harmful than helpful. What Aristophanes really objects to is education which, as he sees it, puts rhetoric and success before justice and moral obligation.

I would like to find more about how 'Clouds' might specifically have influenced general opinion about Socrates and wider Athenian attitudes towards intellectuals/sophists. The presentation of Socrates here is so thoroughly negative, even buffoon-like, that one has to wonder if this caricature significantly affected his reputation amongst ordinary Athenians and perhaps helped fuel the mistrust that was instrumental in his trial and execution.

What I found interesting from this week's reading is when Strepsiades was extremely worried by his son's expensive lifestyle and the constant danger of lawsuits for unpaid debts, leading him to seek help from Socrates' teachings. He goes to Socrates' thinkery, a mocking representation of the Athenian philosopher, to learn the art of sophistic logic to win legal arguments and avoid paying his bills, however, his attempts are mostly pointless as he has trouble understanding the complex concepts of philosophy, which eventually leads to further frustration and conflict with his son.

I believe the author is trying to show the father and son relationship where the play dives deeper towards generational struggle, with Strepsiades' desperate attempts to control his son's behavior leading to further conflict. I believe the author also tries to show that Socrates' figure serves to mock intellectual developments in Athens, particularly what are considered luxuries of philosophical conversations that seem detached from real-world issues.

I'd like to know whether there have been any previous studies that examine how Aristophanes portrays Socrates and how his figure has been used throughout history

With each section, the plot becomes more tangled and ridiculous. There are interesting things I noticed this time: the way “Socrates” assures Strepsiades that there is no such god as Zeus, saying that the rain and thunder are the merits of Clouds. Strepsiades makes a logical conclusion that Zeus has been overthrown by Vortex, like Khronos - by Zeus before(p.131).

The humor is still sharp ( Strepsiades talks about his memory and asks if he is going to be fed on wisdom like a dog (p.135) and sometimes dull (the middle finger gesture (p.142) or when “Socrates” asks if Strepsiades got hold of anything, meaning the thought, old man answers “Nothing but the dick in my right hand”(p.146)).

However, the thing I wanted to discuss was the scene when Strepsiades leaves the thinkery and Clouds talk to “Socrates”(p.148):

“Do you perceive that you'll soon

have very many good things because of us

alone of the gods? For he's ready

to do everything you bid him to.

And you recognizing that the man is

astounded and manifestly excited—

quickly lap up

as much as you can.

For somehow such things are wont

to turn in another direction.”

I believe that Aristophanes tries to show the thinkery, like a dangerous for society cult. “Astounded” and “excited” Strepsiades is going to bring another member, his son. The author shows that “Socrates” is a liar and charlatan, who fools people and lures them into the thinkery for his favor (as we see later Strepsiades thought his cloak away (p.150)). It shows that Aristophanes knows nothing about the real Socrates; for a self-righteous person who cannot accept anything new, even school can seem like a cult.

A passage that I found interesting is when Strepsiades was forced to sleep with the bugs as Socrates was trying to teach him the ways of the thinker. During this part of the story Socrates is asking Strepsiades pretty ridiculous questions like the difference between the words for female and male objects as well as animals. I believe that this was used by the writers in order to illustrate the majority view of the Athenian people in the sense that Socrates was essentially taboo. Socrates had openly discredited the gods and because of this many saw it as an insult to the culture and the gods which was very important in ancient times. Furthermore the way he has been portrayed throughout the book is as a free thinker who does not abide by others opinions. When Strepsiades had gotten mad about being forced to learn things he considered un important or abstract it caused him to grow frustrated creating a clash between the two ideologies. This is because Strepsiades is more focused on getting to the point where as Socrates is trying to shape how he thinks by teaching his own ideology.

Socrates appears to many as the butt of a joke. For Aristophanes, Socratic seems to be a philosopher in the true sense as he teaches his students the tricks of language and logic to win arguments instead of seeking the truth. This figure can be seen as a review of sophists, who are good at decorum, but who possess none of the true spirit of inquiry. 

Trivialization also allows Aristophanes to reflect on his society’s development and the way new trends of intellectualism, such as sophistry, can be misapplied for socially unjustifiable purposes. Although this is comedy, questions about the essence of intelligence and educators and philosophers’ obligations in regard to their students and society in general are asked. 

I am interested in knowing if there are previous studies that analyze the way in which Aristophanes portrays Socrates and how his figure has been used throughout history. In particular, the contrast between the realia ius creorum and how they were shown by the great comedy-beat Clouds contrast would enrich knowledge of philosophical tendencies in ancient Athens. Moreover, it must be sought the attitude towards sophistry and its consequences for Athenian democracy to understand the milieu of Aristophanes 

In Through the comical picture of Socrates hanging in a basket in order to remove himself from worldly worries, Aristophanes severely criticizes Socratic philosophy in Clouds, portraying Socrates and his "Thinkery" as ridiculous and ethically questionable. This scenario demonstrates Aristophanes' fear of Athens' evolving morals, as sophistry and intellectual exploration disrupt traditional ideas such as reverence for the gods and morality. Aristophanes cautions of a society that values smart arguments over moral conduct by criticizing these novel concepts. How did the Athenians react to this depiction, and did Socrates himself ever confront Clouds and its criticism?

In section 4 of the clouds what stood out to me the most is how strepsiades struggles to understand and keep up with Socrates philosophical ideas. He initially seeks Socrates help to avoid paying his debts and to learn how to argue his way out of trouble. The interaction between strepsiades and Socrates highlights the generational conflict between traditional values and new philosophical ideas. Strepsiades becomes frustrated with Socrates abstract reasoning, illustrating the theme of the clash between practical needs and theoretical knowledge. I will like to learn about more the suggestion of new ideas in society.

The quote that interested me the most is, 

“By Respiration, by the Chaos, by the Air!

Nowhere have I seen a man so rustic,

So resourceless, so dull, so forgetful

That he has forgotten the petty little quibbles he was learning

Before he learned them! Nevertheless I’ll call him outdoors here to the light”

I believe the author was trying to communicate the character's frustration with how the others in the story seem to be throwing away the things they have learned and don’t try to learn anything new. I believe this is in reference to what was going on at the time with people not learning or maintaining their traditions and instead throwing them away. I would like to know what Aristophanes’ beliefs are and what happens if they don’t follow traditions that don’t involve the gods.