At the beginning of "Clouds," Strepsiades expresses his frustration about his debts and his desire to learn how to speak persuasively to avoid paying them back. This sets the stage for the overarching themes of the play, including the conflict between traditional values and the rise of sophistry.

Aristophanes uses Strepsiades' life circumstances as an engaging and relatable way to express his personal criticism of contemporary education and the sophists. He illustrates how individuals might pursue knowledge solely for their own gain.

I would be curious to know if there are any other records of how individuals might've reacted or felt toward the shifts in society during this epoch of social culture and artistic evolution.

A detail in particular that stuck out to me was that Strepsiades was willing to beat his servant because the servant used to a wick that made the oil in the candle burn out faster, this detail stuck out to me because it shows how Strepsiades is trying not to be wasteful or spend to much money because he doesn't have the money especially for daily necessities. I believe the author was trying to portray just how dire Strepsiades financial situation was and how little money he had. Another detail that could back up my reasoning is that at the start of the play Strepsiades is seen struggling to sleep because of the anxiety of all the debt that his son has accumulated under his name and the stress of havning to pay back all the debt. These two details reflect how serious is Strepsiades debt and how it is affecting him and that is what the author is trying to show us.

A passage that I find really interesting is when Strepsiades first comes to the thinkery and all these obscure questions are posed. I find it particularly interesting considering that there are wars raging around them but they maintain a level of leisure. I also find the character of Strepsiades' motivation interesting as originally his dad is the one that tells him to go there however he then says that he would go on his own terms. When he gets there he wishes to get the answer to his question of how to solve his debt problem and he offers money in order for his question to be answered. This shows a level of arrogance and not understanding the actual stem of the issue.

According to Clouds Section 1 and Clouds sections 2. Section 1 Strepsiades declare that the schoolars at the " Thinkery" have redefined the world in new materialistic terms.

Stepsiades arrives at the " Thinkery " and meets a disdainful students who tell him about some of socrates's latest experimients. Arriphanes to be communicated an critique of the education practices of his time, and who prioritze the winning argument.

After diving into the reading of the the two sections of"clouds",The portrayal of Socrates and his "Thinkery," where ridiculous ideas and mock-philosophies thrive, was one aspect of Clouds that caught my attention. By portraying him as ignorant of traditional ideas and disconnected from reality, Aristophanes positions Socrates as a representative of the new intellectual trends in Athens. Aristophanes' worries about the cultural changes in Athens during the Archaic era are probably represented in this representation, particularly as young Athenians began to question conventional wisdom and grow more interested in abstract thinking. Aristophanes seemed to be criticizing the effect of sophistry and the possible moral deterioration he observed in intellectual movements that he felt threatened Athenian values through this satire.This prompts more curiosity about the manner in which these intellectual movements were widespread in Athens and how the populace actually viewed individuals like Socrates, who balanced the need for new ideas with respect for tradition.

After reading the first two parts of “Clouds”, the thing that stood out to me the most was when Socrates referred to the clouds as goddesses. Not only that but he said that the Greek gods that these characters supposedly worship are not real at all. I found this interesting because usually in the ancient world there is a huge emphasis on deity worship and the consequences of disrespecting the gods.

By including this in the play, I believe the author was trying to tell us something about how they worship their gods. It could be that they trust their deities or at the very least, don't expect them to do anything about this. Perhaps he’s trying to say that they don't take deities that seriously in Athens which would make sense. In ancient Greece, they believed the gods would not mettle in human affairs so it could be that this is why they don't expect retaliation.

I would like to know what came first. Did their belief that gods do not mettle come first? Or did their belief in themselves come first? The Egyptians and the Sumerians both achieved as a result of their mythological beliefs but could it be that the Greeks believed in themselves so much that they felt they did not need gods? Or did they achieve so much because they believed their gods would not help them?

A section that stood out was when Socrates introduced the "Thinkery". I found this really interesting because it depicts the radical concepts it symbolises, as well as how Socrates and his followers are so disconnected from real issues. However, it criticises philosophers' elitism- it shows that Socrates and his followers are haughty and self-righteous since they are physically above to the newcomers ('in the clouds').

I think Aristophanes was seeking to express his reservations about the developing intellectual trends in Athens, particularly sophistry. By depicting Socrates as ridiculous, he invites the audience to question the worth of philosophy that strays too far from orthodox beliefs, as Aristophanes warns against the consequences of disregarding common sense.

I want to find out more about how the public thought of Socrates.

Aristophanes was a pro-aristocracy and a prolific ancient Greek playwright, and his works offer valuable insights into Athenian society, politics, and culture.

Intellectualism vs. traditional values

Aristophanes' "Clouds" is a masterful satire that critiques the intellectual movements of ancient Athens, particularly the teachings of Socrates and the Sophists. Through clever characterization, witty dialogue, and absurd situations, Aristophanes exposes the flaws of intellectualism, highlighting its potential to undermine traditional values and social

Cohesion

The most important that stood out to me overall

Sections 1 and 2 of "Clouds" set the stage for Aristophanes' satire, critiquing intellectual movements and highlighting the tension between tradition and innovation. These sections establish the central themes and comedic tone, providing a foundation for the play's exploration of intellectualism and its consequences.

In the first two sections, I would like to emphasize the humor component and discuss it a bit. It is amazing that Clouds written around 2500 years ago still can make people who live in modernity smile. I like the joke about the origin of the name Pheidippides(p.118), please do not swear by the god of horses (p.119), “You’ve made a thought I had discovered miscarry” (p.121). The humor is sharp and smart, especially when you read the translator’s remarks and notes and think how cool it sounded in the original language. On the other hand, the part of the jokes made me feel very awkward, and I even had to use a translator in my native language to check if I understood them correctly. The retelling of Socrates’s dialogues… They were so bad and absurd. I didn’t know that Dad’s jokes about crap and anuses(p.122) originated in ancient Greece.

Firstly, I thought that Aristophanes used these jokes to make Socrates’ teachings even more absurd, but later we read one again from the lips of Spreps (p.127). It is obvious that the author tries to show everything he hates in “Socrates” and his students (absurd dialogues and teachings, showing “Socrates” as a self-proclaimed god). He also emphasizes the confrontation of the traditional religion and “Socrates’” beliefs: “For first of all, we don’t credit gods.” “What do you swear with? Iron coins, as in Byzantium?”(p.125). From the first two chapters, it is hard to predict, what he wants to tell and communicate and what else he has in store for his opposition to “Socrates”. It is getting even more absurd, knowing that he is fighting the enemy, that only exists in his imagination, like Don Quixote.

I want to find out if these jokes I mentioned before are just Aristophanes’ feature, or if it was popular in ancient Greece. The rest of my questions will probably be answered after reading the next chapters, so I am going to save them for now.

The passages in particular jumped out at me when I read the two sections of 'Clouds' are: one where Strepsiades laments his debts and worries about his son's obsession with horses and gambling and another where Strepsiades decides to join Socrates and his Thinkery in anticipation that by using sophistical arguments he will be able to get out of debt. Indeed, both scenes are well encapsulated in Strepsiades' frustration, despair, and absurdity in trying to learn complicated rhetorical tricks in order to extricate himself from his troubles. This reveals the satirical side that the author brings to intellectual pursuits devoid of a practical moral basis, and he seems to adopt a comic and critical tone deployed by Aristophanes to voice his opinion concerning lack of realism in the way some Athenians lived their lives and spent money. These passages express the comic contrast between old values and new intellectualism, with the point that these activities are about clever manipulation rather than wisdom.

Meanwhile, in 'Clouds', he appears to strike against the establishment of sophistic education and the influence of intellectual currents in Athens, but all in relation to the character of Socrates and his Thinkery. The author managed to show that intellectualism, if it was unsupported by ethical foundation, might get dangerous, even corruptive, overestimating and caricaturing Socrates' ideas as ridiculous with ambiguous morality. Strepsiades' quest to learn specious arguments to dupe others is literally an attempt to escape his creditors, and this plot denotes a growing disquiet with the abandonment of old morality in favor of 'new' philosophies based on guile rather than virtue. This play shows just how appalled its author was by the facility with which the rhetoric of the sophists allowed one to argue rationally any proposition whatsoever without regard for the innate morality of the proposition. The fact that he even introduced characters like Strepsiades, who are depicted to be embracing sophism for selfish ends, may further attain to the man's very fear that such intellectualism would weaken society's moral fibre. Overall, this is a very funny comedy that seriously performs its public function of social commentary in challenging an audience with this balance of wisdom and moral integrity versus the pursuit of intellectual endeavour.

I would be interested in knowing more about its reception when it was first performed and whether or not the portrayal of Socrates really did anything to the Athenians' opinion of it. One would be very interested in determining what social events or trends could have caused such a strong reaction against the emerging sophist and intellectual movement and in what ways 'Clouds' fall within the context of Greek comedy as a medium of social commentary.

In this week’s readings from Clouds, Section 1 stood out most because of its oddball depiction of the Thinker and Socrates. The Thinkery is portrayed as a bizarre, almost cult-like place filled with strange figures who engage in absurd intellectual experiments. Socrates is introduced in a comical and surreal fashion—he's suspended in a basket, literally "above" the earthly matters that plague ordinary citizens like Strepsiades.

Aristophanes seems to be using this portrayal to ridicule philosophers like Socrates, highlighting their detachment from practical realities and their focus on esoteric ideas that have little relevance to everyday life. By emphasizing the eccentric behaviors and peculiar environment of the Thinkery, Aristophanes casts the intellectual elite as not just morally dubious but also laughably disconnected from society.

I’d like to learn more about Socrates's historical relationship with the Sophists and whether Aristophanes’s depiction had a lasting impact on how Athenians viewed philosophers. Was the real Socrates considered as eccentric as he is portrayed here, or is this a purely comedic exaggeration?

From reading both sections, what stood out to me from Aristophanes' readings from the Clouds offer insight into ancient Athens, including its social, political, and educational characteristics. It gives a significant component that shows a representation of Socrates and the "Thinkery," which evaluates modern logical thought and education. Aristophanes uses comedy to highlight concerns about Athenian society's moral and intellectual direction, particularly the conflict between traditional principles and new ways of thought emerging in the city. The author appears to doubt the Sophistic movement, indicating that while new ideas can be helpful, they also risk pulling people away from morality and social duties. The mocking representation of Socrates reflects a greater uncertainty about academics' influence on Athenian youth and their potential. I would like to find out greater detail about how the discussion of Sophism and new ideas in philosophy affected Athenian politics.

The passage of detail that intrigued me within Clouds by Aristophanes was when Strepsiades was reminiscing about his younger days prior to marrying his aristocratic wife, where he wasn't drowning in debt due to his sons horse shenanigans. He stated that he had an immense freedom where he could do as he pleased, but now he was trapped to deal with issues of debt. The small inclusion of how the language and importance that Pheidippies's mother would be to the man he is today, even though his name is half of what it was chosen for. To see that Strepsiades is wishing for a change within in his life due to Pheidippies can be related factor to all of mankind, for as a comedy is to show the world of the problems that they are facing whether it be political, social or on an economic value - it can be relation to the humanity and to see Strepsiades asking for this change, could be revolutionary and impact those who want to do the same. I really enjoy the little notes at the bottoms of the pages, it gives an insight to small tidbits of Greek culture and provides an understanding to the aspects of setting, development and characters.

It also showed the viewpoint of how Pheidippies felt about the dwellers of the Thinkery, and it made me recall of how first few talks about Aristophanes and his view of people like Socrates, does who don't dwell on tradition and religion - those that are different from him. Possibly he placed a little of himself or see himself in Pheidippies for sharing that same opinion of how the people in the Thinkery are low-lifes, or waste their time on incoherent thoughts.

As Strepsiades brought up the factor of weak speech and a strong one, he stated that the weak one would be able to charm the likes of people. I wonder why would that one be preferable if the strong one could have better outcomes? I wonder what those words provide and I hope they show a depiction soon.

A detail, in particular, jumped out at me as I was reading through this week’s primary source readings is Greek characteristics which are constant competition and conflict with each other. For example, Greek families constantly compete over which family has more wealth or power. This example shows how the Greeks are constantly be competition with each other. Another example is Greeks have athletic competitions and they have joy when their opponents are completely humiliated.   

In clouds Section 1, where Socrates is portrayed as a teacher of the clouds, teaching the youth deceptive oratory and how to conjure up words and legal argument to make the worse the appearing to be the better’ (130a3-4; 130d), which seemed very striking, as if suggesting a conflict between the old language of tradition and the new sophistic talk of rising sophistry.In Section 2, and in the long scene in which Strepsiades tries to learn these new rhetorical techniques while increasingly losing his rag, we are offered a brilliant parody of the everyone-look-at-me-I’m-thinking approach to intellectualism – of how clever and convincing the brainbox can make itself seem, and how disconnected from the work of ordinary life this cleverness might be.

Aristophanes appears to be communicating a critique of the educational practices of his time, particularly the sophists who prioritize winning arguments over seeking truth. Through the character of Strepsiades and his interactions with Socrates, the author highlights the potential pitfalls of valuing rhetoric and intellectualism over traditional moral values and practical knowledge. The humor embedded in these interactions also serves to engage the audience, prompting them to reflect on the implications of these educational shifts.

I would be interested in learning more about what Plato’s Clouds was responding to historically – especially how the emergence of sophism and shifts in educational values in Athens were shaping attitudes towards thinkers like Socrates – and also how Aristophanes’s comic interventions on these themes might have landed with audiences in Athens back in 423 BCE. How did these seemingly specific themes about education, rhetoric and ethics shape the comedy and debate back then, and how might they resonate for us today?

The quote that interested me most was “Heavenly Clouds, great goddesses/for lazy men—from them, we get ... our power to strike responsive chords in speech/and then rebut opponents' arguments.” I believe that the author is trying to communicate how people are lazy because they only care about winning an argument and that they are not truly interested in finding the truth. I would like them to explore how the social, political, and cultural conditions of ancient Athens influenced the book's portrayal of Socrates and his followers.

The readings from the Clouds by Aristophanes provide an insight into ancient Athens, particularly its social, political, and educational dynamics. One standout detail is the portrayal of Socrates and the "Thinkery," which serves as a critique of contemporary philosophical thought and education. Aristophanes uses humor to express concerns about the moral and intellectual direction of Athenian society, focusing on the tension between traditional values and the new ways of thinking emerging in the city. The author seems to communicate skepticism about the Sophistic movement, suggesting that while new ideas can be enlightening, they also risk leading people into wrongdoing from ethical behavior and civic responsibility. The satirical depiction of Socrates reflects a broader anxiety about the influence of intellectuals on Athenian youth and their potential to undermine established norms. I’d like to explore more about how this critique of Sophism and new philosophical ideas influenced Athenian politics and public opinion. It would also be interesting to find out how Socrates actual philosophies contrasted with Aristophanes portrayal.